The Monuments Men & Recent Art Find

I find this incredibly moving, given the age of the gentleman, and the circumstance he has found himself in..........

NEWSER) – A German man caught hoarding $1.3 billion in Nazi-era art has relented to the media glare and given an interview—in which he describes himself as a sad, lonely man who had nothing but great art to keep him company. "I'm just a very quiet person," 80-year-old Cornelius Gurlitt tells Der Spiegel on a train ride. "All I wanted to do was live with my pictures." Now authorities say that he will receive an indictment—presumably for hoarding stolen art—but will also get some of it back. And at the moment, that's all he lives for: "They have to come back to me," he whispers with tears in his eyes.

Gurlitt defends his deceased father, art dealer and critic Hildebrand Gurlitt, saying he bought the art during the Nazi reign but always from dealers or museums, never private sellers. "I'm not as courageous as my father," he says. "He loved art and fought for it. The state prosecutor has to restore my father's reputation." With his health deteriorating and medical bills piling up, Gurlitt admits to selling an expressionist work for nearly $1 million. But when he doesn't need the dough, "there is nothing I have loved more in my life than my pictures," he says. "When I'm dead, they can do with them what they want."


So sad  

I feel bad for this man. How do you prove something is yours, passed down from your father, when there are no receipts (who keeps receipts from 80 years ago)? And if they are indicting him, for stolen art, why are they giving some back? And who is to say it is really stolen? I think the government sometimes oversteps their boundaries when they don't have concrete facts. Sometimes you are guilty until proven innocent.

anyway
was that the best place for such pieces?

playfuldeb wrote:I feel bad for this man. How do you prove something is yours, passed down from your father, when there are no receipts (who keeps receipts from 80 years ago)? And if they are indicting him, for stolen art, why are they giving some back? And who is to say it is really stolen? I think the government sometimes oversteps their boundaries when they don't have concrete facts. Sometimes you are guilty until proven innocent.

Have to say I feel no sympathy.  He hid the art for decades and occasionally sold off pieces to support himself.  His father was allowed to deal art confiscated by the the Nazis.  After the war the father claimed the art works had been destroyed in a bombing.  He is not his father and he may not have been the one who stole the works or extorted them in the first place, but I think he knew where they came from.

Not the best place ..... but I still feel sorry for an elderly man whose pictures appear to be all he knows how to love. They are his family to him... but I only know what I've read...

they are his family to him
....

playfuldeb wrote:I feel bad for this man. How do you prove something is yours, passed down from your father, when there are no receipts (who keeps receipts from 80 years ago)? And if they are indicting him, for stolen art, why are they giving some back? And who is to say it is really stolen? I think the government sometimes oversteps their boundaries when they don't have concrete facts. Sometimes you are guilty until proven innocent.

 
For now it looks like he will not be indicated for stolen art only tax fraud as he didn't reported the art he owns. Indeed it is sad. I'm sure they can not proof that those art peaces were stolen but keep it until he dies as he is already 80 years old and then the goverment can do what they want. 

fava wrote:

Have to say I feel no sympathy.  He hid the art for decades and occasionally sold off pieces to support himself.  His father was allowed to deal art confiscated by the the Nazis.  After the war the father claimed the art works had been destroyed in a bombing.  He is not his father and he may not have been the one who stole the works or extorted them in the first place, but I think he knew where they came from.

If he really owns the art then it doesn't matter if he was hiding the art from others and selling pieces off it. His freedom to do what he wants with it. Only if he really owns it. And at the moment there is no proof otherwise.

That the father dealt art by the Nazis is no secret as this was already posted in a different thread and in some those articals it was explained very well how he got to this job. His father was not a Nazi.The district attorney investigates already since 2 yerars with different Museums. That's why everyone is confused nobody claimed any of the pics yet.

And I think there is nothing bad about that the father claimed (after the war finished) that the art was destroyed. We are a different generation we will not understand but if it's war everything you want to protect is what you still own. Do you think when the Russians or Americans would have found the art they would have believe him that he really owned it without crime if this was the case? It was after war they would just have taken it. Everyone would have done the same.
 
You know when they publish the story in Germany the press was very clear it is stolen art and he is a criminal person. But now after more and more research the press get much calmer. There is no proof yet the art was stolen. That's why the dirstrict attorney speaks already maybe to return some art peaces to him. Nobody claimed any art pieces yet. (ok now while I'm writing it somebody will claim it LOL)

I guess we need to wait and see and not judge him before the trial even started. The investigation is not finished yet.

We automatically hear : "hidden art"- "Nazi" - "second world war" and we think we know the story.

But that's only my opinion of course.

I think Mr Gurlitt has a very interesting story to tell... if he is not willing to talk, I hope someone, a good journalist, gets to talk to ppl from his past, schooldays, and present neighbours, accountants whatever ... my gut tell's me he is a movie in himself .... "Curse of the Nazi Art"  (JK)... it just looks like his LIFE, has been consumed by his pictures  ... What I have read points to a very isolated man .... before that maybe an isolated child...who made brother and sister attachments with faces on canvas ... and holidays were to places on canvas. Canvas became the beginning and end of his world, the only world he knew, in his own words "there is nothing I have loved more in my life than my pictures," he says. "When I'm dead, they can do with them what they want."

Quiet a statement if he owns even a few.....jmo

Couldn't agree more, WWHS.

Very good article in the Guardian today, and I would love to be that empathetic journalist who gets the story!

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Well how do you know if it was stolen, I mean if you inherit something or get something you do not have a receipt to prove you bought it? But it´s yours.

I´m completely out of this news. Just genarally chatting. But with the old things you can´t prove they belong to you...if someone walked up to you and told they are stolen, how could you know?

And, maybe it's not just the art that holds dear in his heart. Maybe there is sentimentality associated with his dad with that art. Memories no one will ever know about.

Hey stop being pathetic, given the age of the gentleman in question. he could not know! The Nazi Germans have stolen works of art throughout Europe and this "poor" man of normal family home is located in 1500 works by Picasso, Matisse, Chagall, etc. and he "German" does not know where they come from? Sorry but I do not believe it!

You don't have to believe it Lelacorb. But you have to respect the law which says not guilty until proven otherwise and not calling people pathetic.

And he never said he doesn't know where the art is coming from. He said his father purchase them legaly. And of course where his father bought it from he will not know as he wa a child at that point. Anything else has to be proven in court.

But it is easy to pre judge, isn't it.

Nicky80 wrote:You don't have to believe it Lelacorb. But you have to respect the law which says not guilty until proven otherwise and not calling people pathetic.

And he never said he doesn't know where the art is coming from. He said his father purchase them legaly. And of course where his father bought it from he will not know as he wa a child at that point. Anything else has to be proven in court.

But it is easy to pre judge, isn't it.

No, it is not easy, but maybe it's obvious! If you were standing in the house in 1500 found oper art by Picasso, Mstisse, Chagall and Co, what I thought? ...... I, frankly, that my parents were thieves!

maybe he respected his parents very much, maybe he had a good and honest relationship with his parents that's why he never thought of his father as a thieve.
 
Different people, different lifes, different history, different stories how can we understand as our lives are not the same. Better to stay neutral on that until evidence will prove the case.

Nicky80 wrote:maybe he respected his parents very much, maybe he had a good and honest relationship with his parents that's why he never thought of his father as a thieve.
 
Different people, different lifes, different history, different stories how can we understand as our lives are not the same. Better to stay neutral on that until evidence will prove the case.

2+2 = 4 and this happens all the time, 1500, and not one or two, but 1500 works of art by Picasso, Matisse and Chagall make the difference! ................. or you're stupid or you're not (and perhaps today, the gentleman in question could really be stupid, maybe you would save dala jail!

1500
all pressed in an apartment
unbelievable....

His father must have been very rich to purchase 1500 works of art by some of the most famous painters in the world!!!

Okay 1500 works? More than Guggenheim... oh huh.

again I say
in a 'normal' apartment?
I know many art pieces are hidden in museum closed rooms (I guess also bec of exposition space or bec of needing some restoration they have no money for) but I would hope putted in a best way than amassed in an apartment....
am I wrong?

I would imagine only sunlight coming from the windows can harm the works, let alone changing temperatures etc.
One minute and work is calling!

humidity
yes
the list can go on

have a nice day Carla
ciao

anyway we said
a family
for him

but I say
a really neglected family

And nobody claimed any art pieces yet? I guess they can´t (all dead). Interesting to see how they will handle it.

(If they don´t know what to do with them always can send me couple of Picasso´s...)

There have been stories of family members trying to reclaim works of art that were taken during the war. Since any proof of purchase by these family members no longer exist they haven't been returned. I wonder if this gentleman's father kept any of the receipts for the 1500 paintings he purchased?

This article may shed some light..

The man who hoarded Nazi looted art may get to keep it all [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

— TIME.com (@TIME) [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Thanks theminis. That is a great artical and it explains it all very well.    If we like it or not but that's how it is. Really interesting story. Weird too

Fascinating. And unbelievably complicated!

The Liebermann painting is beautiful.

In an ideal world, wouldn't it be wonderful if the government and Cornelius Gurlitt could agree to exhibit everything so that the world at large could see the collection? And if he inherited them where does the law stand on that?

Yes that would be wonderfull to exhibit everything.

The artical says that about inherited:

"But under German law, his death could also make things more complicated. “There seem to be a lot of nephews and nieces around,” says von Falkenhauser. And they would have every right to inherit Gurlitt’s hoard after he dies — and to keep it long after."

The German law is different then in America. I think in America if you have family you can still inheritage everything to someone else whoever you want and leave you family out. In Germany that is not possible. Your family will hertiage if you want it ot not. It's the law.

But who knows maybe with all the publicity the family will decide to diclaim the heritage after he dies. That would be nice.

and what about insurance?
if they want to keep all
(and that I don't think it is right)
they will preserve them in the best ways
as humanity's patrimony
and take the best care

I anyway don't think their law can put silence
on the looking eyes of the whole word

In case somebody is still interested. The old guy Cornelius Gurlitt died yesterday on a heart attack.

Google translation

Art Heritage Cornelius Gurlitt: Death of a phantom

Munich / Berlin - Cornelius Gurlitt was a man who seemed to have fallen out of time. He avoided the phone, he did not watch television, the Internet was for him a medium from another galaxy. For decades, this son of art dealer Hildebrand Gurlitt, lived in complete seclusion, in a separate world in which his paintings, people replaced. "More than my pictures," he said in his only interview with SPIEGEL, "I have loved anything in my life."

Now Cornelius Gurlitt died without having seen again his collection. Two years ago, the Augsburg prosecution seized more than a thousand works of art with him, including works by Marc Chagall, Max Beckmann and Picasso. "They would have but can wait with the pictures until I'm dead," Gurlitt had said late last year by the Spiegel reporter Özlem Gezer.

However, the state power did not want to wait . After the spectacular seizure action had become public aware of Gurlitt , who until then had led a life of seclusion found again in the center of a public debate on the discharged looted art and restitution.

On February 28, 2012 Dozens investigators and experts were under the leadership of Augsburg public prosecutor came in Gurlitt's apartment in Munich and had 1280 images seized. Collected had the impressive private collection Gurlitt's father , the art dealer and profiteer of the Nazi regime , Hildebrand Gurlitt .

Background of the search had been a check on the train. Customs officials had found at Gurlitt 9000 € , when he returned from Switzerland to Munich. But the allegations against him that he had evaded taxes on the sale of images abroad , the prosecution could not in fact borne out , despite great effort , including wiretapping and surveillance . In early April raised the investigators seizing the art collection then finally back on . The nearly two-year deprivation of images according to expert opinion was perhaps disproportionate and therefore unlawful.

Getting back but Gurlitt has his pictures but no more. In his apartment in Munich- Schwabing he could the valuable works of art for the sake of safety anyway no longer be stored .

For long the affair Gurlitt had ignited a political debate about the handling of looted art . Were the efforts of many German museums to return once more hesitant by the Nazis looted art to its rightful owners so far , so now could demonstrate the Culture Minister Monika Grütters (CDU ) in the private collection Gurlitt that they actually tried , the heirs of Nazi victims happened to belated justice allow .

The supervisor Gurlitt and his lawyers concluded with the Federal Republic and the Free State of Bavaria is an agreement whereby the lifting of the seizure was a crucial part of the deal . With this agreement, initially had everyone involved as winners in the tangled case : Although Gurlitt should get back his pictures , but the Task Force set up by the federal government was allowed to investigate their origins . In addition, Cornelius Gurlitt undertook to return any stolen art from his collection to the heirs of the former owners . However, hardened so far apparently only at a fraction of the 1280 confiscated works of suspicion that Cornelius Gurlitt could have possessed wrongly .

Was he at the end of an innocent man who fell through a stupid accident in the wrong suspected of being a tax evader ? This question will probably never be able to be legally clarified : With the death of art heirs presented the Augsburg public prosecutor their investigations a .

After all, the federal government , it seems , has benefited from the affair. You could use the case Gurlitt to work up the sometimes scandalous failures of Germany in the identification and return of looted art . When Minister of Culture Grütters now Gurlitt attested that he had with his " commitment to moral responsibility set an exemplary character for finding fair and equitable solutions " , which has a bitter aftertaste . Gurlitt was since the dawn raid a broken , helpless man .

Cornelius Gurlitt was a heart-sick man, the excitement sat him-self the nervous federal government had intervened, had let up a task force because of the legacy of his father. His health deteriorated. The district court ordered a tutor for him. Then an operation. How to - ultimately mainly because of sins of the father - dealt with it as you also surrendered him, is more than questionable.

A few weeks ago died in England, another old man. His family had one of the images requested back.

The Augsburg prosecution had in lifting the seizure emphasizes: " . The investigation itself is not finished yet " Now, however, the investigations are set. Should be extinguished Likewise, the mandate of Christoph Edel, who was appointed as Gurlitt Managers and had in turn hired three lawyers and a public relations experts . The agreement between Gurlitt , the Free State of Bavaria and the Federal Government could, however, continue to be valid, it should be transferred to the heirs Gurlitt .
But who are these heirs ? Whether Gurlitt , who after the death of his sister had no immediate family more , minded his distant relatives, initially remained open. In the environment Gurlitt it is said that the art collector had left a notarized Testament - would in the mainly favors an "institution in Switzerland ."

If the should be so now a whole new chapter in the complicated case . And there is still much to do . So far was not one of the images , in which a suspected stolen art has confirmed returned. The search for justice has just begun .

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sad
poor man





now?

Yes I am still interested just not out there looking. I don't think that I have gotten over the shock yet.Do you know when MM comes out on DVD I always try to collect George's discs. Thanks for this article I appreciate it very much.Are you the one the movie "The Good German" was written about? My step-dad was German, from what I was told he was a different person when he came home from the war. xxx

@It's me...no idea what will happen next......but whatever happens it will be a low process.

@Mazy, yes lot of people returned after war and changed and had a different opinion they had before and for us today it is difficult to understand as we are not a war generation anymore.

This guys was just too old to understand what happened to him.

I will update if I come across something new about the art...

OK here is another update. The images go to a museum in Bern, Switzerland. He was upset how the German Government treated him that he didn't want his paintings to be kept in Germany. Full story below

Google translation

Deceased collector: Gurlitt pictures go to Bern Art Museum

Bern / Hamburg - The Kunstmuseum Bern is heir to the art collection of Cornelius Gurlitt . As the museum confirmed in Munich died on Tuesday art collector has the whereabouts of the images has a will in which he had to record and certify the beginning of the year before a heart operation by a notary.

The message is "like a bolt from the blue " smashed, because previously no contact with Gurlitt had passed , according to the Declaration of the Berne Museum. The Foundation Board of Directors and were " grateful and pleasantly surprised ," but had " at no time have any relations between Mr Gurlitt and the Kunstmuseum Bern " passed . One wants " but also not deny that the great legacy of significant responsibility and an abundance of the most difficult questions burdens , in particular questions of legal and ethical nature."
Pending resolution of all ownership , however, remains unclear what art actually go to Switzerland , if so it will be the complete collection of Gurlitt .

Gurlitt's pictures would definitely well into the 1879 Opened fit , which already has an exquisite collection of works of classical modernism Kunstmuseum Bern . The Bernese producer Hermann judder , who was friends with the Parisian gallery owner Daniel -Henry Kahnweiler purchased early works of Picasso and other Cubists and laid an excellent collection of Paul Klee . Judder on suitable valuable works to the museum . Even the influential art dealer Justin Thannhauser donated exquisite images of Bern Museum.


The Augsburg public prosecutor seized on 28 February 2012 in Gurlitt's Munich apartment in 1280 images. In his Salzburg home his lawyers found more 238 art objects, including 39 oil paintings by world famous artists such as Renoir, Monet and Liebermann . Finally, the man of Gurlitt's deceased sister Benita provided 22 images from the Land Office of Baden- Württemberg after he no longer held it in the light of public attention in his house for sure .


Under an agreement dated 7 April 2014, the prosecution had re-enabled the works . The investigation against Gurlitt ended with his death.
Cornelius Gurlitt was deeply hurt from the fact that the Augsburg public prosecutor had " like a criminal " treated him in the house search . For this reason he did not want that from his father, the art dealer and Nazi profiteer Hildebrand Gurlitt , reasonable collection in Germany remains . In Bern Cornelius Gurlitt had the art dealer Eberhard Kornfeld , who is also one of the sponsors of the Kunstmuseum Bern, images sold from his collection to earn his livelihood.


The direction of the Museum is to become the point of contact for the lawyers , demanding the stolen art from the collection Gurlitt for the heirs of former owners. Also appointed by the Federal Government Task Force to determine the provenance of Gurlitt images and identify possible stolen art should , in the future to deal with the Swiss Museum officials. That should at least be easier than if they were dealing with individuals from the family Gurlitt .

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Thanks again Nicky for some reason this is one movie that sticks with me probably because it is based truth. It had to be horrible for Germans back then, not the Nazis, but the regular German people that were caught in Hitler's nightmare.

news

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Painting discovered among huge Nazi art trove to be sold for £500,000 after being returned to its rightful heir - who saw it seized the morning after Kristallnacht
Two Riders on a Beach was taken by the Nazis after Kristallnacht in 1938
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Painting was among 1,600 works discovered in a flat in Munich in 2012
Mr Toren, who is now 90, is auctioning off the artwork for £550,000

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