DEALING WITH TROLLS

Also, and sorry to be the bitch in the bunch, but life isn't all roses and lollipops. Even George does and .says things that aren't politically correct. He's human!

To suggest that his fans never say anything critical or unflattering here simply feeds into the conspiracy theories of people like Leone Fellini. It also makes posting here increasingly difficult as I, for one, am constantly self-censoring - not so I don't say something nasty or rude about George or Amal, but so that I don't say anything to offend other posters who feel any comment that doesn't praise G&A means you're not really a fan.

I really enjoy participating in this forum, but it's beginning to feel very different from when I joined and ALL George's fans were welcomed  - even the fans who don't think he walks on water!

Lizzy, I agree George is human I think everyone should have their opinion , but sometimes it is just said in such a nasty way that it is upsetting. He has done nothing but change his mind and get married , if he is happy I as a fan am happy for him and Amal. Those who don't believe that is their choice , but there are ways to put things that aren't mean nasty and disrespectful. I read this on line.
Tact is a way to tell someone to go to hell in such away that they look forward to the trip.

LizzyNY wrote:Also, and sorry to be the bitch in the bunch, but life isn't all roses and lollipops. Even George does and .says things that aren't politically correct. He's human!

To suggest that his fans never say anything critical or unflattering here simply feeds into the conspiracy theories of people like Leone Fellini. It also makes posting here increasingly difficult as I, for one, am constantly self-censoring - not so I don't say something nasty or rude about George or Amal, but so that I don't say anything to offend other posters who feel any comment that doesn't praise G&A means you're not really a fan.

I really enjoy participating in this forum, but it's beginning to feel very different from when I joined and ALL George's fans were welcomed  - even the fans who don't think he walks on water!

Totally agree. 

And it has nothing to do with him, getting married by the way--there were negative or somewhat critical comments way before that!  What has changed is how anything not seen through rose-colored glasses is received.  I don't see why there can't be lively discussion about George that includes a diversity of opinion--including when posters have a criticism about a particular matter. 

Mentally ill trolls are a different kettle of fish altogether. There is no discussion (or logic in their --her--arguments!) just constant repetition of the same tired accusations. Troll is not interested in a dialogue, just a soapbox for their diatribe.

Amal Clooney has a resting bitch face. Now for those who don't know what that is, it is when you appear stern or unfriendly when not smiling. I think this is the problem some people may have with Amal. I have a friend who has this face and my daughter also, if you saw them on the street you would think they were mean and hard. In fact they are the nicest people you could meet. Amal has that look when not smiling , It could be seen when she and George first were in Laglio when they went to dinner and she looked like thunder. If you look at pictures of her smiling and interacting she looks friendly and warm to me anyway.  This is something she can't control unless she walks around smiling like a loon for life. I also think with her job it helps because you can't read her thoughts.  I also know that this face can be taken to mean she is angry when the person is not angry or upset that is just their face. This is just my opinion and what I see.

Lizzy Good Morning.  I never see you as bitchy.  You have strong opinions.  Most of us do.  I think what you said has been said by some others here.  I remember one poster saying a few months ago that it's not fun posting here anymore.

I've been posting here since just before George got married last year.  I can say hands down most of the arguments/disagreements have been about his marriage and whether he was genuine in his motives and about Amal.  Lots of strong opinions and sometimes those thoughts were biting to nasty.

I can find things about George to find fault with.  He is not perfect.  But those discussions usually don't come up too often.  The chatter is almost always about his new wife and new life.  Which as you know I defend intensely.  

Lizzy I don't want you to censor your thoughts.  But all of us should be responsible for what we say.  And we all have to take the heat with some of what we say. I have, you have, most everyone has.

Annemarie, what a curious topic!! I didn't think you were supposed to be too personal on COH??  I know what you mean, but to point it out in such a way is not polite! I expect none of us can help our expressions, but save to say that when someone is truly happy, a smile will always break through, either closed lips or teeth will follow! George is the master of the rue smile, but I say it's in the eyes. If someone really doesn't like something, that's where is shows the most, they are the window to the sole after all! Anyone can smile or not, but look at the eyes instead and the way the look is, under brows, sideways. Anyways, I thought this was a GEORGE forum?? My mistake!   

Smile always comes from eyes.Amal smile with eyes for camera always.George she smile with eyes to I hope.We don't see.

annemarie - Love the quote! I totally agree that no one needs to be nasty to make their opinions known. But "disrespectful" is a different can of worms, since that is so open to interpretation. What one person sees as a joke or a straightforward observation, another person takes as an insult.

I appreciate the intentions of all the posters here who keep us civilized, but please don't take us so far that only hosannas to George can be posted.

Donnamarie, you joined right around the time things started to change here on COH. If you go back to before George and Amal got married you'll see that there wasn't so much pressure to be politically correct. People had more of a sense of humor and seemed much less judgmental. I get where it's coming from, I just find it a bit confining and unrealistic to expect people to be all nice all the time. That's not life.

Donnamarie wrote:
Lizzy I don't want you to censor your thoughts.  But all of us should be responsible for what we say.  And we all have to take the heat with some of what we say. I have, you have, most everyone has.

I think that this is a very good point. Maybe it would help to ask ourselves if we would say this to the person we address to if we would say it to them face-to-face. But maybe that's a too-old-fashioned thoughts. ..

And I don't mind if someone  speculates about certain issues - I don't need to read threads where this happens. I just don't like when posters are rude.

LIzzy I love that quote, I have been here for a while and even with some of the girlfriends I found some of the things said nasty. We all need to think before we speak would you like it if this was said about your sister or your daughter if not then why say it. Constructive criticism is fine just nasty attacking is not nice nor is trying to disguise it in a joke. It's not what we say it is how we say it.

Fluffy - What Annemarie said is not impolite, IMO. She is stating an opinion that she thinks will clear up a point for some of the posters here. I think what she said is a plausible explanation for what bothers some people about Amal.

The idea that she shouldn't post this because it is not  "polite" is exactly what we've been talking about in "Dealing With Trolls" thread. - Donnamarie, this is exactly what I meant. I rest my case.

Thank's Lizzy I'm glad you get what I was saying. Fluffy , resting bitch face is used to describe someone who looks stern or bitchy when they are not smiling nothing rude about it.

annemarie is simply commenting on a subject that has been discussed on COH before.  More than once. fluffy I don't find her thoughts impolite at all.  She was making a thoughtful observation.  She even included her own daughter as an example.  I think this is also in response to the recent comments by our visiting trolls. 

This is a George forum and Amal is part of it now too.  She has her own work thread.  Old girlfriends of George had their own threads too.

Yes, Donnamarie just my observation that's all.

And you should be able to make that observation without being criticized for being "too personal" or mean. Is it any more personal than the posters who speculate with glee on George's "package" and what they'd like to do with it? Should those comments (totally good natured though they be) be removed or censored for being too personal? What if he's really proud of that little van dyke he's growing and one of us doesn't like it. Are we hurting his feelings by saying so here? Should we only say it looks great even if we don't believe it?

I think we're getting a little too sensitive. Lighten up people!

Hmmm. I have some concern that the Trolls (plural intended whether they are in fact plural or not :-) ) are controlling way more than they should be permitted to control - which should be exactly nothing. Way back the US Supreme Court, in an obscenity case, was required to consider the definition of obscenity. The famous answer was essentially - I can't define it but I know it when I see it. I feel the same way about what is essentially "hate speech". Speech which is intended to and aimed at inciting hatred towards an individual or group. This falls outside the scope of free speech - because living in a world where one is free to promote hatred against others is not a pleasant prospect. 

This is a far cry from political correctness or disagreement. It's not that we all have to agree. And we shouldn't have to walk on egg shells just because some people are bent on using an open public forum to spew hatred.

Hating someone you don't know is not an opinion - in my opinion. Which is not to say you cannot rationally hold the view that you don't much like them, have no time for them, find them obnoxious or irritating. And that this view is expressed is not hate speech.

It is the very personal, ugly attacks. We all know them when we see them. I have seen posts on this forum where a moderator steps in and puts the breaks on in these circumstances.

I think it is possible for me to appreciate (just for an example :-) ) Lizzy's point of view. I can do so with an appreciation that she makes her comments candidly and without any hint of malice. I may disagree with this point of view and may express this. But Lizzy from New York I will defend to the death your right to say it. 

I've never heard the expression "resting bitch face"
before.
I would say my face is like that too until 
I laugh or smile.

But I don't like the use of the word "bitch" as a 
derogatory term for a woman, nor "cow."
Because I like those animals I've pondered long 
and hard about another term to use.

Sorry....a bit off topic I'm afraid !

I agree with everyone what has said here.

But I like to Point out you can post negatives of George and Amal. And you can be snarky. (People will Response accordinly LOL). That is never an issue on this Forum.

Nobody get banned for this. I like to remind everyone that there is a difference between Posters who have negative things to say and a troll. Now our last troll insulted People here and called them cunt and was insulting Cindygirl and for those who remember her know she died and can not defend herself anymore. She died in May 2013

http://www.clooneysopenhouse.com/t3325-our-final-goodbyes-to-cindigirl-who-passed-away-29-may-2013
http://www.clooneysopenhouse.com/t4364-remembering-our-cindigirl-at-christmas-time

http://www.clooneysopenhouse.com/t5296-remembering-our-cindygirl-one-year-on?highlight=cindygirl

Now we should all remember opinions are one thing and Insult another. And i think we all know the difference. But when People come here and claim they can not express they "honest" opinion well that's they problem. I'm sure I can speak for all that we are welcoming everyone but we can not make everyone happy.

LIzzyNy, the package jokes I get doesn't bother me but sometimes maybe you see it differently even some of the snark is just mean and not funny. That is just it Lizzy someone has said they dislike the Goatee, my reaction was I simply think he looks sexy. NO argument to be had not from me. I think that is the problem people aren't sensitive these days internet has made it easy for people to be down right vicious and that i don't get we have lost the compassion , yes George is famous and Amal married him but that does not give any of us the right to just be vicious and nasty . Anyone can say I don't like Amal all I would like is for someone to be constructive and clear as to why. Katie dot said she knows her dislike of Amal is irrational , she admits this. I hope I am making sense here. Throwing venom at someone you don't know and has never done anything to you makes no sense to me.

Hey Joanna it is a term used by the younger generation I didn't make it up. I think it gets your attention that's why I explained it. I meant no disrespect to Amal or any woman heck I am one lol.

I post my same post here which I posted in the troll thread as the this thread is an result of the troll thread.

Nicky80 wrote:I agree with everyone what has said here.
But I like to Point out you can post negatives of George and Amal. And you can be snarky. (People will Response accordinly LOL). That is never an issue on this Forum.
Nobody get banned for this. I like to remind everyone that there is a difference between Posters who have negative things to say and a troll. Now our last troll insulted People here and called them cunt and was insulting Cindygirl and for those who remember her know she died and can not defend herself anymore. She died in May 2013
http://www.clooneysopenhouse.com/t3325-our-final-goodbyes-to-cindigirl-who-passed-away-29-may-2013
http://www.clooneysopenhouse.com/t4364-remembering-our-cindigirl-at-christmas-time
http://www.clooneysopenhouse.com/t5296-remembering-our-cindygirl-one-year-on?highlight=cindygirl
Now we should all remember opinions are one thing and Insult another. And i think we all know the difference. But when People come here and claim they can not express they "honest" opinion well that's they problem. I'm sure I can speak for all that we are welcoming everyone but we can not make everyone happy.

Very true Nicky80.

Nicky80 wrote:I post my same post here which I posted in the troll thread as the this thread is an result of the troll thread.

Nicky80 wrote:I agree with everyone what has said here.
But I like to Point out you can post negatives of George and Amal. And you can be snarky. (People will Response accordinly LOL). That is never an issue on this Forum.
Nobody get banned for this. I like to remind everyone that there is a difference between Posters who have negative things to say and a troll. Now our last troll insulted People here and called them cunt and was insulting Cindygirl and for those who remember her know she died and can not defend herself anymore.

She died in May 2013
http://www.clooneysopenhouse.com/t3325-our-final-goodbyes-to-cindigirl-who-passed-away-29-may-2013
http://www.clooneysopenhouse.com/t4364-remembering-our-cindigirl-at-christmas-time
http://www.clooneysopenhouse.com/t5296-remembering-our-cindygirl-one-year-on?highlight=cindygirl


Now we should all remember opinions are one thing and Insult another. And i think we all know the difference. But when People come here and claim they can not express they "honest" opinion well that's they problem. I'm sure I can speak for all that we are welcoming everyone but we can not make everyone happy.

Thank you Nicky for remembering Our Cindygirl. .

Nicky, I think oldweston nailed the problem when she said that she can't define hate speech but she knows it when she sees it. That's exactly the problem.

Each of us sees it a bit differently, through the lenses of our own experience. So what she sees as hate speech might just be someone else's observation or opinion. We shouldn't be so quick to judge people's motives. If you want to know, ASK! And just as we can't make everyone happy, we can't each expect to be happy all the time either.

Thank you Nicky for remembering Our Cindygirl
in your post above.  

Lizzy - okay I surrender:-)

But since I am incapable of flying the white flag until I am absolutely sure I have exhausted all possibilities...a weakness I acknowledge....

Here is the thing. There is no doubt in my mind at all that you and I would agree on what is hate speech and what is not. All of which means I didn't explain myself very well. :-(

I remember reading some past posts about Cindygirl.  So sad.  I don't know if she had an illness but she left the world sooner than she should have no doubt.  That the troll would even include her in her hate speeches is disgusting.  

I just think life is too short for people to be mean to each other.  That may sound simpleminded  but it's how I feel.

Well Donnamarie I'm simple minded as well.

LizzyNY wrote:Each of us sees it a bit differently, through the lenses of our own experience. So what she sees as hate speech might just be someone else's observation or opinion. We shouldn't be so quick to judge people's motives..

Sorry Lizzy I don't agree. If someone calls you a cunt or fat blonde dumpling then you know we are not quick to judge or it is someone else observation or opinion. It is insulting nothing else. I don't understand why we have this discussion anyway. We talking about trolls right????

LizzyNY wrote: And just as we can't make everyone happy, we can't each expect to be happy all the time either.

In my post I didn't say that I expect everyone to be happy. That's why I said negative Posts and snarky comments are ok on this Forum. But if People are not happy this Forum is not to blame.

So....my brain is done for a friday. i know this is an amal thread and started with her face. Now we are back to the Troll. Shall I merge this thread with the troll thread ????? mmmmhhh

Nicky80 wrote:So....my brain is done for a friday. i know this is an amal thread and started with her face. Now we are back to the Troll. Shall I merge this thread with the troll thread ????? mmmmhhh

Nicky you're so funny and emotional ...... AND you're German!  You got it all girl.  I say merge the two and go have a drink.  It's the weekend.  Enjoy!!!!

Oldweston, you were very clear and explained your thoughts very well.

oldweston- Why are you surrendering?!! You explained yourself beautifully! I guess I'm the one who didn't make myself clear I apologize.. I agree totally with everything you said.

I was only adding that people have different interpretations of what constitutes "hate speech" based on their own experiences. Therefore, IMO, being"grown-ass" women (as Tina and Amy said) we should be able to handle a disagreement every once in a while without major trauma.

I think most of us can tell when a comment crosses the line into the unacceptable - and it isn't just because we disagree with the comment. It's the tone and intensity and irrationality of whatever is said. That's when we veer off into troll territory and, IMO, that's when other posters should be concerned.

NICKY - The quotes you mentioned are exactly the kind of thing that crosses the line and should not EVER be tolerated. TOTALLY AGREE!!! This is "hate speech" clear and simple. This is what I was trying to say.
 But comments that are annoying or not in agreement with someone's ideas aren't "hate speech". They're just a difference of opinion.

Having apparently posted all day with both feet in my mouth confusing everyone, I will now shut up.

LOL Lizzy I like to see you with both feet in your mouth

OK OK I got it. We are all on the same page hehe.

Donnamrie, ok I will merge and then I go to my Karate. Friday is Karate day and I'm ready to beat somebody up hehe

Talk to you later

Merged

Nicky, that's it the tone of writing is different than when speaking, you can tell sarcasm when looking at and speaking with someone . Over the net it gets lost and may not be meant in a mean way. But there are also times When you can tell it is meant in a mean way. I guess we just need to read carefully .

Yep got it Annemarie and I agree

My fault. I thought all the time you all refering to the troll posts and I thought man you all are crazy it is all clear to judge. But didn't realise the conversation left the troll and you reached another level about communications.

But yes I agree. Sarcasm is hard to judge over the net. Especially for me as English is not my mother language. So sometimes I don't know was this a joke or serious. Shall I laugh or argue Or when George gives interviews sometimes I don't get his sarcasm.....but get it then when we talk about it in different threads.

Or sometimes I think I posted something funny and I get a kick ass reply (that's what happens when Germans try to be funny LOL). To express and receive Messages is a challange that's why we have Jobs called "communications Manager" hehehe

Nicky80 you do a great job keeping us all on tract and coh a place whee we can all come to discuss George and whatever else is going on.

ah thank you I love fridays

But this is only possible because of all of you guys. We are made for each other George would love us

Nicky - So sorry for adding to your headaches today. When you get to karate, I give you full permission to pretend it's me every time you kick someone.

Iiis 

the Leone Felini wrote:I don't think anyone hates AA because she is George Clooney's 2nd wife.  Nor  TB, the first wife. Nor pretty, petite, feminine Celine.
George Clooney has had so many partners. No one would hate yet another in his collection. He seems like a very emotionally needy man when he talks in interviews about his relationships.

My opinion, (like hundreds I read online) about AA is that she is very manly featured & unattractive, but I cannot dislike a person for that.  So no one should comment about appearance except that the gossip media press releases are over-exaggerating absurd that it becomes ridiculous. Then comments call her offensive names about her appearance, even in airbrushed pics.. 

The marriage does not feel genuine at all. So, most comments are snarky that this is a "Rock Hudson" or "Tom Cruise" bogus marriage. Just no compatability nor chemistry.

People are too time poor to waste on reading about unappealing celebrities when in fact media is flooded with so many. Unless someone is doing case study or works in PR.  

The novelty of George Clooney marrying again after years of his preplanned PR team waxing lyrical that he would not again in order to create intrigue & sensationalism has worn off. And it felt so fake & staged. He failed to create admiration because the protagonist chosen to play the wife was not appealing.  Badly scripted. Too bad for him.

I guess that is why people tune out  except for  the small congregation of "fans" praising here on this site and who go to painstaking lengths to discuss  photo-ops fashion parade...in this here George Clooney site. 
More attention to the latest publicity partner than to whom this site is ostensibly dedicated, no?

Not sure of such a thing as a "resting bitchy face." If so, it just indicates a nasty personality as our character or mood are often shown on our countenance. I think AA looks hostile even when smiling. IMO.  In PR sham wedding photos, when she is turning her back to GC hugging her father in group therapy photo.
Or the duo photo with her super long arm, and clenched huge fist where George's face looking so fake digital retouched you don't recognise it's him. He looks like an orange Nelson Mandela in that corny photo.
I think he looked better playing groom in Intolerable Cruelty.  

IMO. No such thing as resting bitchy face unless someone has always nasty inner core
Or natural facial features are so unattractive that makes someone look always snarling.

I read the deleted trolling messages too the other day. This cindigirl lady was very pretty. I just looked at links. But it wasn't cindigirl s/he was insulting.  I think s/he targetted other names.
That vulgar word starting with "c" is disgusting.
His/ her mother should have put pepper in mouth for foul language when growing up. Or maybe s/he needs anger management.  

A refined lady shouldn't say more than "do shut up!" Rarely. No profanity.
IMO.

I remember s/he writing about Omar Sharif (Dr Zhivago) too here, a few days ago. Something about him being a star in 60s. 
Anyway, he pass away yesterday.
In Egypt. Heart attack too. Like Jerry Weintraub.

RIP Omar Sharif too

Leone Fellini , you obviously don't know everything, my daughter and friend do not have nasty personalities they do have a face when not smiling looks mean or annoyed so I do know what I'm talking about. I don't know the medical term but this face does exist. Your dislike for Amal is quite obvious . Are you a raving beauty yourself somehow I doubt it someone, who says such nasty things about someone they don't know is ugly on the inside and the outside.  And by the way that is just my opinion.

annemarie - you argument makes no sense but emphasizes how desperate you are promote Amal Alamuddin. Almost like you're a PR rep.

Assuming this "resting bitchy face" concept you claim exists, either way, it doesn't sound appealing. So facial features (nose, eyes, mouth) make someone look "bitchy." Weird. Ok let's assume it's that. 

You don't know what I look like or if I'm a female, I presume. So what has aesthetics got to do with it?
Like thousands of people commenting online all over media outlets, I do not find AA physically attractive; just very masculine & harsh.  Nothing wrong about that. You cannot call someone an "ugly soul" because they dare not agree with your opinion. And it is totally irrelevant to their physical appearance if their personality is not pleasant to you.
What happened to "respectfully disagreeing?" This is why there is an ever so obvious group here who like to dominate and impose their opinion promoting what thousands of people think is a fake publicity marriage between two incompatible people.
Anyone not agreeing with you is a "troll" or banned or bullied out. Then it seems like a PR site not an independent fan forum.

All I state is that the "marriage" reeks of mega fail publicity arrangement sham, IMO, & that I (like general consensus) find AA to be unattractive. Just read comments everywhere. They were even ridiculed by top US tv hosts just for Halloween because of silly staged wedding overkill. PR stunt gone wrong. Poor George. Commedia dell'arte. 

As for what I physically look like, I'll leave that to those who compliment me about it. From those who know or meet me & compliment my appearance like legendary icons Clint Eastwood to Lauren Bacall, Tom Jones, Michael Jordan, Johnny Depp, Arnold Schwarzenegger, etc. ....And even Nick Davies a few weeks ago. If I so modestly may say since you are keen on insulting.
So your opinion does not affect me. It just sounds like an overly defensive desperate & malicious attack on someone who does not agree with you. And you don't even know me....IMO.

You are the one who doesn't like when others don't agree with you. I stated something that I know and you don't agree. You are allowed to attack Amals looks and that is o.k. I don't think so it doesn't work that way. Some of the prettiest people on the outside are ugly on the inside. A troll is going to be a troll why don't you find something new to spew the attacks on Amals looks are tiring.

I stated 2 things:
* I find AA physically unattractive like the vast majority of social media comments. I didn't write I dislike her for how she looks. Incongruent argument. 
* I also think the marriage seems like a PR arrangement. 
This in turn becomes unappealing, so people tune out. Dislike GC even, by association.

I give you the benefit of doubt about the "resting bitchy face" concept. But if you & your daughter have it, wouldn't you know the medical term for it by now? Or is it features? 

As for physical appearance, if someone does not have a pleasant disposition, then they repulse others no matter what they look like. Modesty, kindness,  honesty, humility are likeable qualities. But also assertiveness & intellect. Balance.

I used that term because it is the one that is used most around me. So you don't like George yet your on a fan site dedicated to him trashing his wife and Marriage. O.k then. So I guess you never met George and he didn't compliment your appearance then.

I didn't write that I dislike GC.
Again: 
*I don't find the 2nd wife attractive (like hundreds of people state online).
*I think this is a publicity arrangement. IMO.
Zero chemistry between them.