George on Weinstein
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Re: George on Weinstein
PAN - I didn't want to go there because I guess she'd have to draw attention to herself somehow in order to have her grievances heard. There's just something "off" about all this. ER had a huge cast and crew, but except for George and a couple of other people nobody's even acknowledged her accusations. Maybe they approached her privately. Maybe there's some kind of behind the scenes thing going on, but I doubt it. The whole thing is fishy.
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Re: George on Weinstein
My husband and I went to a friend's birthday party on saturday, and another guest - a man - started talking about the Weinstein scandal and said: "I'm so glad that this just happens in Hollywood but not in Germany and apart from the film industry." All women were staring at him, and I asked if he tried to make a joke. He abnegated, asking why I didn't seem to agree with him. Then - without excuse - every woman started to talk about how she had been sexually harassed, touched, asked to sleep with, ...
In the end, all men were stunned and shocked to realize that this problem exists in every society, business and country. And we women thought that it was really important to take away a bit of their self-satisfaction: 'We're better men, in our country women aren't harassed.'
In the end, all men were stunned and shocked to realize that this problem exists in every society, business and country. And we women thought that it was really important to take away a bit of their self-satisfaction: 'We're better men, in our country women aren't harassed.'
carolhathaway- Achieving total Clooney-dom
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Re: George on Weinstein
Well that is telling isn’t it carol? I think this man’s perspective is very common. In the states in many different environments many men seems to be unaware that this behavior is going on. Many men don’t communicate with men on the same level that women do and women’s stories of sexual harassment don’t get shared as often with men either. Women tend to share intimacies in their life with other women.
Donnamarie- Possibly more Clooney than George himself
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Re: George on Weinstein
Donnamarie - I don't think it's just that men don't talk about it. I think there's a disconnect for them between what they see/do and what constitutes harassment. I think they see a lot of inappropriate behavior/language as just guys being guys and don't understand why it's offensive. The "I didn't mean anything by it" excuse is what allows pigs like Trump or Weinstein to get away with what they do for so long.
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Re: George on Weinstein
Following the 'Weinstein case', I read quite some articles about women speaking out as well, like the #metoo.
In the comments, these accusations were discussed quite controversial, and for me it's obvious that you sometimes have to know the context as well.
But one remark was commented by readers a lot, and men were usually who saw this as a normal, non-sexist note:
A female surgeon was in the midst of a surgery, when her male collegue asked her: "Aren't your big breasts incommoding you standing at an operation table for hours?"
Unfortunately the woman wasn't quick-witted enough for a suitable answer.
Most of the male readers who commented didn't see anything wrong with this question, saying things like: "If somebody would strap two heavy weights on my breasts, I couldn't stand like that for hours, so I guess he just wanted to make sure she was okay."
Of course it might just have been meant in a thoughtful way, but then this man - who was her boss - should really work on his verbal skills.
A woman replied: "Maybe men can't imagine that, but we usually don't wake up one morning with breasts who grew over night. It takes some time which gives us the time to get used to them. That's called puperty. We also have access to things which help us to handle them, they are called bras!"
It's not always like a man is undressing in front of you telling us he wants to f... you while masturbating. It's often just feeling uncomfortable because somebody says strange things or likes to touch you acvidently.
Maybe it would help if men imagined women talked about them the same way they do...
In the comments, these accusations were discussed quite controversial, and for me it's obvious that you sometimes have to know the context as well.
But one remark was commented by readers a lot, and men were usually who saw this as a normal, non-sexist note:
A female surgeon was in the midst of a surgery, when her male collegue asked her: "Aren't your big breasts incommoding you standing at an operation table for hours?"
Unfortunately the woman wasn't quick-witted enough for a suitable answer.
Most of the male readers who commented didn't see anything wrong with this question, saying things like: "If somebody would strap two heavy weights on my breasts, I couldn't stand like that for hours, so I guess he just wanted to make sure she was okay."
Of course it might just have been meant in a thoughtful way, but then this man - who was her boss - should really work on his verbal skills.
A woman replied: "Maybe men can't imagine that, but we usually don't wake up one morning with breasts who grew over night. It takes some time which gives us the time to get used to them. That's called puperty. We also have access to things which help us to handle them, they are called bras!"
It's not always like a man is undressing in front of you telling us he wants to f... you while masturbating. It's often just feeling uncomfortable because somebody says strange things or likes to touch you acvidently.
Maybe it would help if men imagined women talked about them the same way they do...
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Re: George on Weinstein
I see men falling into a bunch of different categories of understanding women and boundaries. I think there are lots of men who excuse their behavior as “boys will be boys”. They emulate behavior they see from other guys and think it’s perfectly acceptable. There are also men who just don’t get women, act awkwardly or say inappropriate things to them. Then there are many clueless or completely insensitive men. But there are men who do understand their boundaries when it comes to interacting with women. They are sensitive and thoughtful and usually understand our body language. They just get it. Too bad there aren’t more of them. What makes for this vast difference between men and their behavior towards women ... I don’t know. It’s not simply because of how they were raised.
As for men like Weinstein, Trump, Ailes and Cosby. I see them as completely insensitive, selfish, power hungry men who do feel a sense of entitlement. Sick SOBs ....
As for men like Weinstein, Trump, Ailes and Cosby. I see them as completely insensitive, selfish, power hungry men who do feel a sense of entitlement. Sick SOBs ....
Donnamarie- Possibly more Clooney than George himself
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Re: George on Weinstein
Lizzy, Agreeing with your disconnect remark. I don't necessarily disbelieve some of these Hollywood men when they deny knowing "how bad" Weinstein was. But I do wonder if they just did not see the signs/visible behavior in the same way a woman would. Unfortunately, for me this includes George and Matt Damon.LizzyNY wrote:Donnamarie - I don't think it's just that men don't talk about it. I think there's a disconnect for them between what they see/do and what constitutes harassment. I think they see a lot of inappropriate behavior/language as just guys being guys and don't understand why it's offensive. The "I didn't mean anything by it" excuse is what allows pigs like Trump or Weinstein to get away with what they do for so long.
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Re: George on Weinstein
I don't think the signs are that obvious, men brag about the women they have dated. Talk about how they look. I don't think they are sitting around talking about harassing or forcing themselves on women.
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Re: George on Weinstein
Ok. But my point was that they may not have seen it as harassment. I think there is a story about George photocopying his butt on Roseanne. And another where there was a photos of his genitals wearing Groucho Marx glasses on the set fridge. All in good fun, right? Not sure I would have thought that if that set was my workplace.annemarie wrote:I don't think the signs are that obvious, men brag about the women they have dated. Talk about how they look. I don't think they are sitting around talking about harassing or forcing themselves on women.
Something as simple as "I had her up to my room and asked for a massage" is indicative of harassment when someone works for you. Not sure men of 15-20 years ago would have recognized it as such. Weinstein apparently frequently told people actresses slept with him (true or not) to get jobs.
fava- More than a little bit enthusiastic about Clooney
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Re: George on Weinstein
fava - Agreed. Men don't see the signs the same way women do. The behavior isn't (usually) directed toward them so they haven't had to learn the signs and watch their backs like women do whenever they're around men. Most of them are probably oblivious most of the time.
Inviting a woman to your room and asking for a massage is not/was not ever considered appropriate unless she was a masseuse. Creeps like Trump and Weinstein are fully aware that what they're doing is wrong. That's why they make sure no one else is around - and that's why so many people who know them can honestly say they didn't know.
annemarie - Men may not talk about forcing themselves on women, but they do talk about the women they've "had". Check out some of the conversations in frat houses and companies where the male employees skew younger. They're too immature to read the signs women are giving them (although plenty of older men are just as bad), so they often act or speak inappropriately (ie. catcalling on the street or, more seriously, date rape, inappropriate touching or comments). Unfortunately it falls to the women in their lives to set them straight.
Inviting a woman to your room and asking for a massage is not/was not ever considered appropriate unless she was a masseuse. Creeps like Trump and Weinstein are fully aware that what they're doing is wrong. That's why they make sure no one else is around - and that's why so many people who know them can honestly say they didn't know.
annemarie - Men may not talk about forcing themselves on women, but they do talk about the women they've "had". Check out some of the conversations in frat houses and companies where the male employees skew younger. They're too immature to read the signs women are giving them (although plenty of older men are just as bad), so they often act or speak inappropriately (ie. catcalling on the street or, more seriously, date rape, inappropriate touching or comments). Unfortunately it falls to the women in their lives to set them straight.
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Re: George on Weinstein
I thought I would post this video here. This is another part of the GMA interview from this morning that George and Matt speak specifically about the Weinstein scandal
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Donnamarie- Possibly more Clooney than George himself
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Re: George on Weinstein
I'm getting to the stage where I would pay good money to see Harvey in the nip.....I seem to be one of the few that haven't had Harvey meet me in his bathrobe at his hotel room door.....How the F*** did he get any work done...I'm presuming he skipped brushing his teeth....time is money, and money never sleeps.....
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Re: George on Weinstein
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That's a quite interesting article about one of Weinstein's former assistants, sorry but I can't post the article itself.
That's a quite interesting article about one of Weinstein's former assistants, sorry but I can't post the article itself.
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Re: George on Weinstein
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Harvey Weinstein’s former assistant, Zelda Perkins, is breaking her N.D.A. and sharing her disturbing story.
by
OCTOBER 24, 2017 10:46 AM
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George Clooney is not backing down from his remarks about Harvey Weinstein. Thanks to his press tour for the upcoming drama Suburbicon, Clooney has been on the circuit, doing junkets and red-carpet events—and invariably, he’s been asked repeatedly about the recent Weinstein scandal. Each time, Clooney has replied with aplomb, raking the mogul over the coals once more. In a recent interview with the Guardian, Clooney took a different tactic, focusing his attention on Weinstein’s enablers—particularly the journalists who didn’t follow through with reports about his behavior, and the Miramax and Weinstein Company employees who might have aided Weinstein’s alleged predatory pattern of harassment and assault. (Weinstein, for the record, has denied allegations of non-consensual acts.)
“I would have liked to have known this—that this man was assaulting women and silencing women,” Clooney said.
Then, in an unrelated twist of fate, a former Miramax employee broke her non-disclosure agreement and came forward to tell her own sordid stories about Weinstein on the record, painting a fuller picture of how he allegedly harassed and manipulated the people working for him.
In an interview with the Financial Times, Zelda Perkins recalled what it was like being Weinstein’s assistant in the early 1990s. As he allegedly did with many other women, Perkins said Weinstein would have her come to his hotel room, where he would take his bathrobe off in front of her and ask for a massage, or ask her to watch him bathe.
“This was his behavior on every occasion I was alone with him,” she recalled. “I often had to wake him up in the hotel in the mornings, and he would try to pull me into bed.”
Perkins put up with the behavior for years, until Weinstein allegedly assaulted one of her friends at the 1998 Venice Film Festival. “She was white as a sheet and shaking and in a very bad emotional state,” Perkins said. “She told me something terrible had happened. She was in shock and crying and finding it very hard to talk. I was furious, deeply upset and very shocked.”
They wanted to go to the police, but were unsure how things would proceed in Italy. The pair then took the story to a London-based law firm, Simons Muirhead & Burton, which negotiated with international law firm Allen & Overy. Both ended up agreeing to a £250,000 settlement, split between the two, then signed an N.D.A. in October 1998.
Nearly 20 years later, Perkins is ready to “publicly break my non-disclosure agreement.
“Unless somebody does this there won’t be a debate about how egregious these agreements are and the amount of duress that victims are put under,” she said. “My entire world fell in because I thought the law was there to protect those who abided by it. I discovered that it had nothing to do with right and wrong and everything to do with money and power.”
Her words might inspire more ex-employees who were once under Weinstein’s thumb—and current employees who are still under it. In a recent joint statement, select anonymous T.W.C. employees demanded publicly that the company board release them from their N.D.A.s, so they “may speak openly, and get to the origins of what happened here, and how.
“We have nothing to hide, and are as angry and baffled as you are at how Harvey’s behavior could continue for so long,” the statement continued. “We ask that the company let us out of our N.D.A.s immediately—and do the same for all former Weinstein Company employees.”
Perhaps this is the next chapter of the ever-unfolding Weinstein saga—employees skirting their legal binds and coming forward with new stories, adding another dimension to this black hole of a scandal.
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[size=56]George Clooney Demanded to Know Who Helped Weinstein—Then a T.W.C. Employee Spoke Out[/size]
Harvey Weinstein’s former assistant, Zelda Perkins, is breaking her N.D.A. and sharing her disturbing story.
by
- YOHANA DESTA
OCTOBER 24, 2017 10:46 AM
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y Kevin Winter/Getty Images.
George Clooney is not backing down from his remarks about Harvey Weinstein. Thanks to his press tour for the upcoming drama Suburbicon, Clooney has been on the circuit, doing junkets and red-carpet events—and invariably, he’s been asked repeatedly about the recent Weinstein scandal. Each time, Clooney has replied with aplomb, raking the mogul over the coals once more. In a recent interview with the Guardian, Clooney took a different tactic, focusing his attention on Weinstein’s enablers—particularly the journalists who didn’t follow through with reports about his behavior, and the Miramax and Weinstein Company employees who might have aided Weinstein’s alleged predatory pattern of harassment and assault. (Weinstein, for the record, has denied allegations of non-consensual acts.)
“I would have liked to have known this—that this man was assaulting women and silencing women,” Clooney said.
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Then, in an unrelated twist of fate, a former Miramax employee broke her non-disclosure agreement and came forward to tell her own sordid stories about Weinstein on the record, painting a fuller picture of how he allegedly harassed and manipulated the people working for him.
In an interview with the Financial Times, Zelda Perkins recalled what it was like being Weinstein’s assistant in the early 1990s. As he allegedly did with many other women, Perkins said Weinstein would have her come to his hotel room, where he would take his bathrobe off in front of her and ask for a massage, or ask her to watch him bathe.
“This was his behavior on every occasion I was alone with him,” she recalled. “I often had to wake him up in the hotel in the mornings, and he would try to pull me into bed.”
Perkins put up with the behavior for years, until Weinstein allegedly assaulted one of her friends at the 1998 Venice Film Festival. “She was white as a sheet and shaking and in a very bad emotional state,” Perkins said. “She told me something terrible had happened. She was in shock and crying and finding it very hard to talk. I was furious, deeply upset and very shocked.”
They wanted to go to the police, but were unsure how things would proceed in Italy. The pair then took the story to a London-based law firm, Simons Muirhead & Burton, which negotiated with international law firm Allen & Overy. Both ended up agreeing to a £250,000 settlement, split between the two, then signed an N.D.A. in October 1998.
Nearly 20 years later, Perkins is ready to “publicly break my non-disclosure agreement.
“Unless somebody does this there won’t be a debate about how egregious these agreements are and the amount of duress that victims are put under,” she said. “My entire world fell in because I thought the law was there to protect those who abided by it. I discovered that it had nothing to do with right and wrong and everything to do with money and power.”
Her words might inspire more ex-employees who were once under Weinstein’s thumb—and current employees who are still under it. In a recent joint statement, select anonymous T.W.C. employees demanded publicly that the company board release them from their N.D.A.s, so they “may speak openly, and get to the origins of what happened here, and how.
“We have nothing to hide, and are as angry and baffled as you are at how Harvey’s behavior could continue for so long,” the statement continued. “We ask that the company let us out of our N.D.A.s immediately—and do the same for all former Weinstein Company employees.”
Perhaps this is the next chapter of the ever-unfolding Weinstein saga—employees skirting their legal binds and coming forward with new stories, adding another dimension to this black hole of a scandal.
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annemarie- Over the Clooney moon
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Re: George on Weinstein
Here is Access Hollywood’s interview with George on the same subject
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Donnamarie- Possibly more Clooney than George himself
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Re: George on Weinstein
Ouch this whole miserable Harvey story is hurting George.....If just by association...... the fact that a junket to promo HIS movie is being used as a platform for Journalists to ask repeated and endless questions about Harvey is the most unfortunate timing in the world......
By "association" I mean pairing a negative story with just anything and you will get some will rub off.....I could write a cook book, if while promoting it I was asked endlessly about (famous) bad tomatoes....my book would be negatively affected.....
PR peeps put huge effort into promoting the product in the best possible light....George's movie, his product, is being wrapped up inside seedy Harvey's wrapper......In my Country Trump and Harvey have become figures of ridicule and jokes....You just never think of the business cost....the emotional cost, yes we all feel and think of that....but businesses? no, we don't....
It isn't fair, and it's damn bad timing....
I fear it will have a knock on ticket sales....
I didn't think it great that Kimmel spoke about the Tequila sale....again, it's that standing in the theatre and deciding which movie to see...We all want to help the guy who might need it....After Kimmel, George?........
The world we live in...everyone's looking for an OUT.....
By "association" I mean pairing a negative story with just anything and you will get some will rub off.....I could write a cook book, if while promoting it I was asked endlessly about (famous) bad tomatoes....my book would be negatively affected.....
PR peeps put huge effort into promoting the product in the best possible light....George's movie, his product, is being wrapped up inside seedy Harvey's wrapper......In my Country Trump and Harvey have become figures of ridicule and jokes....You just never think of the business cost....the emotional cost, yes we all feel and think of that....but businesses? no, we don't....
It isn't fair, and it's damn bad timing....
I fear it will have a knock on ticket sales....
I didn't think it great that Kimmel spoke about the Tequila sale....again, it's that standing in the theatre and deciding which movie to see...We all want to help the guy who might need it....After Kimmel, George?........
The world we live in...everyone's looking for an OUT.....
What Would He Say- Mastering the tao of Clooney
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Re: George on Weinstein
I think George tends to speak out about injustice whenever he feels it’s appropriate. The timing may be unfortunate but I don’t see how he avoids discussing the Weinstein situation when asked by the media ... especially during Suburbicon interviews. He’s rarely shy about speaking out, despite how it might affect his popularity. If he chose not to comment because he wanted to focus only on promoting his movie it would probably appear insensitive and hypocritical. Those who don’t want to see ‘Suburbicon’ will do so either because they read bad reviews of the movie, don’t like the genre or don’t like George and his politics.
Donnamarie- Possibly more Clooney than George himself
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Re: George on Weinstein
WWHS - Donnamarie's right. People who want to see the movie will go whether he talks about Weinstein or not. I don't see how he could refuse to discuss it when asked in an interview without coming across as if he doesn't care. Even worse, it would raise suspicions about why he didn't want to talk about if. Even some fans might wonder if he was in some way complicit or maybe had something to hide.
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Re: George on Weinstein
More revelations of Weinstein's 'working practices'
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Re: George on Weinstein
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‘The cult of Harvey’: Weinstein's staff at Miramax describe bullying and abuse
Sex allegations ‘rancid tip of the iceberg’ says former head of production while others compare their response to post-traumatic stress disorder
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Harvey Weinstein in 2003, when he was co-chair of Miramax Films. He left in 1993 to set up the Weinstein Company. Photograph: Alexandra Winkler/Reuters
Stephanie Kirchgaessner and Hannah Ellis-Petersen
Wednesday 25 October 2017 16.15 EDTLast modified on Wednesday 25 October 2017 17.00 EDT
Senior executives who worked for Harvey Weinstein at Miramax Films have described an atmosphere of psychological abuse and bullying at his film studio, enabling his behaviour at the firm to go unchallenged for decades.
Several former colleagues spoke to the Guardian, with one describing the company as being like a cult, a second describing the internal atmosphere as sadistic and a third saying Weinstein hurled a glass picture frame at her in the midst of an argument.
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[size=16]Former production assistant becomes latest Harvey Weinstein accuser
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Paul Webster, who was head of production at Miramax between 1995 and 1997, before leaving to create and run Film Four, said he believed that the “sex allegations are just the particularly rancid tip of the iceberg” at the company.
“Miramax was absolutely a cult, the cult of Harvey, and that’s how he got away with his behaviour for so long,” said Webster. “It was crude but very effective. People became brainwashed, some people had nervous breakdowns. People would be hired and then destroyed for no apparent reason, and then their careers and lives would be in tatters.”
He added: “Everything Harvey did was all about manipulation and fear. He was a massive bully. He would flatter people, get the best out of them and then dump on them really, really hard to destroy them. It was this whole thing of breaking people down so you could build them up in your own image.”
Webster admitted that Weinstein’s predatory behaviour towards young women was common knowledge but that the culture of Miramax led them to “compartmentalise it”.
“I feel so ashamed because I knew, everyone knew,’ said Webster. “I’ve been saying it for years that he’d eventually get done for rape, because it’s that pattern of bullying behaviour combined with the sex stuff. I can say now I did think he was a rapist.”
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[size=16]Weinstein ex-aide breaks confidentiality agreement over alleged harassment
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Miramax was bought by the Walt Disney Co in 1993, and Weinstein left there in 2005, setting up the Weinstein Company thereafter. He was fired by the board there earlier this month following detailed allegations of harassment spanning several decades. Since then, dozens of women have come forward with their own tales of alleged inappropriate sexual contacts and threats.
Weinstein has unequivocally denied any allegations of non-consensual sex and has said he is hoping to get a second chance. A spokesperson for Weinstein did not respond to a request for comment on claims about his alleged verbal abuse or the incident involving the frame.
Other former Miramax employees described how their years working at the company had left them with post-traumatic stress disorder. “I remember friends would ask me what it was like to work at Miramax and I would always tell them that it’s kind of like telling people you fell down the stairs,” said Jesse Berdinka, a former US marine who worked at Miramax for seven years and said the “mental weight” of the sometimes “sadistic” experience would affect the rest of his life.
Berdinka, who worked his way from being a temp to being vice-president of development and production at Miramax, said he began drinking more than he should have in order to deal with the extreme stress, and developed nervous tics. The story of his own rise in the ranks was typical, he said, because when outsiders were brought into senior jobs they often did not last long.
“You see stories of domestic abuse on the news and think, how can people keep subjecting themselves to that? And then I would walk into the office the next day,” Berdinka said. “For me at least it was the drip, day after day, of never knowing if you are good enough or if you are going to be at the top of the world or the bottom of the shit list.”
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[size=16]Moguls and starlets: 100 years of Hollywood’s corrosive, systemic sexism
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A third former senior executive, speaking to the Guardian on the condition of anonymity, said she believed she suffered from PTSD. She described how Weinstein threw a glass frame in her direction, narrowly missing her head. The frame contained a picture of Weinstein and Mick Jagger.
“It wasn’t just sexual abuse. Everyone got abused. It didn’t really matter how high up you were, you got the same treatment,” she said.
After one meeting in 2001, Weinstein was so abusive that the executive was told by her boss that she would not have to attend another meeting with him for a year.
“If I were to sum up the physical and emotional response, I would say I feel it is PTSD,” the executive said. She said some of the symptoms re-emerged when the first stories of Weinstein’s abuse were aired on television this month, making her physically ill.
“I’ve had years of recurring nightmares. Ten years of nightmares, while I was there and after,” she said.
Disgusted by the reports of abuse, Berninka said he and other executives are trying to raise money for a charity for battered women, in an effort to “do something good”.
“We always referred to Miramax as the trenches in the sense that it was a war zone,” one former assistant told the Guardian. “We used to joke about having to wear a helmet to work.”
‘The cult of Harvey’: Weinstein's staff at Miramax describe bullying and abuse
Sex allegations ‘rancid tip of the iceberg’ says former head of production while others compare their response to post-traumatic stress disorder
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Harvey Weinstein in 2003, when he was co-chair of Miramax Films. He left in 1993 to set up the Weinstein Company. Photograph: Alexandra Winkler/Reuters
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123Stephanie Kirchgaessner and Hannah Ellis-Petersen
Wednesday 25 October 2017 16.15 EDTLast modified on Wednesday 25 October 2017 17.00 EDT
Senior executives who worked for Harvey Weinstein at Miramax Films have described an atmosphere of psychological abuse and bullying at his film studio, enabling his behaviour at the firm to go unchallenged for decades.
Several former colleagues spoke to the Guardian, with one describing the company as being like a cult, a second describing the internal atmosphere as sadistic and a third saying Weinstein hurled a glass picture frame at her in the midst of an argument.
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[size=16]Former production assistant becomes latest Harvey Weinstein accuser
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Paul Webster, who was head of production at Miramax between 1995 and 1997, before leaving to create and run Film Four, said he believed that the “sex allegations are just the particularly rancid tip of the iceberg” at the company.
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“Miramax was absolutely a cult, the cult of Harvey, and that’s how he got away with his behaviour for so long,” said Webster. “It was crude but very effective. People became brainwashed, some people had nervous breakdowns. People would be hired and then destroyed for no apparent reason, and then their careers and lives would be in tatters.”
He added: “Everything Harvey did was all about manipulation and fear. He was a massive bully. He would flatter people, get the best out of them and then dump on them really, really hard to destroy them. It was this whole thing of breaking people down so you could build them up in your own image.”
Webster admitted that Weinstein’s predatory behaviour towards young women was common knowledge but that the culture of Miramax led them to “compartmentalise it”.
“I feel so ashamed because I knew, everyone knew,’ said Webster. “I’ve been saying it for years that he’d eventually get done for rape, because it’s that pattern of bullying behaviour combined with the sex stuff. I can say now I did think he was a rapist.”
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[size=16]Weinstein ex-aide breaks confidentiality agreement over alleged harassment
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Miramax was bought by the Walt Disney Co in 1993, and Weinstein left there in 2005, setting up the Weinstein Company thereafter. He was fired by the board there earlier this month following detailed allegations of harassment spanning several decades. Since then, dozens of women have come forward with their own tales of alleged inappropriate sexual contacts and threats.
Weinstein has unequivocally denied any allegations of non-consensual sex and has said he is hoping to get a second chance. A spokesperson for Weinstein did not respond to a request for comment on claims about his alleged verbal abuse or the incident involving the frame.
Other former Miramax employees described how their years working at the company had left them with post-traumatic stress disorder. “I remember friends would ask me what it was like to work at Miramax and I would always tell them that it’s kind of like telling people you fell down the stairs,” said Jesse Berdinka, a former US marine who worked at Miramax for seven years and said the “mental weight” of the sometimes “sadistic” experience would affect the rest of his life.
Berdinka, who worked his way from being a temp to being vice-president of development and production at Miramax, said he began drinking more than he should have in order to deal with the extreme stress, and developed nervous tics. The story of his own rise in the ranks was typical, he said, because when outsiders were brought into senior jobs they often did not last long.
“You see stories of domestic abuse on the news and think, how can people keep subjecting themselves to that? And then I would walk into the office the next day,” Berdinka said. “For me at least it was the drip, day after day, of never knowing if you are good enough or if you are going to be at the top of the world or the bottom of the shit list.”
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[size=16]Moguls and starlets: 100 years of Hollywood’s corrosive, systemic sexism
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A third former senior executive, speaking to the Guardian on the condition of anonymity, said she believed she suffered from PTSD. She described how Weinstein threw a glass frame in her direction, narrowly missing her head. The frame contained a picture of Weinstein and Mick Jagger.
“It wasn’t just sexual abuse. Everyone got abused. It didn’t really matter how high up you were, you got the same treatment,” she said.
After one meeting in 2001, Weinstein was so abusive that the executive was told by her boss that she would not have to attend another meeting with him for a year.
“If I were to sum up the physical and emotional response, I would say I feel it is PTSD,” the executive said. She said some of the symptoms re-emerged when the first stories of Weinstein’s abuse were aired on television this month, making her physically ill.
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Disgusted by the reports of abuse, Berninka said he and other executives are trying to raise money for a charity for battered women, in an effort to “do something good”.
“We always referred to Miramax as the trenches in the sense that it was a war zone,” one former assistant told the Guardian. “We used to joke about having to wear a helmet to work.”
annemarie- Over the Clooney moon
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Re: George on Weinstein
Well that’s a pretty horrible description. My first reaction is why would anyone stay there for so long and put up with him and his behavior. But it’s easy for someone on the outside looking in to judge. The people who worked for him and wanted any future in the movie industry knew their careers would be destroyed by Weinstein if they spoke up and called him out. But why didn’t they have the wherewithal to just leave? A brainwashed mentality or did his staff stay simply for the prestige of working for Weinstein? Regardless, Weinstein is a monster and hopefully is done in Hollywood forever. I hope he gets prosecuted, convicted and serves prison time for the rape charges.
Donnamarie- Possibly more Clooney than George himself
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Re: George on Weinstein
Donna,
that's exactly my thoughts.
Is your career worth to live in fear and to be abused every single day?
Yesterday, the European Parliament (the parliament of the EU) had a meeting about sexual abued. Not a general duscussion about how to deal with it in each of its member states, but because female MPs and also employees talked about having been sexually harassed and even raped - by male employees and also by MPs.
The women also didn't talk about it because the employees didn't want to risk their careers and their jobs. For female MPs the problem us that politics is a mans world. So any woman complaining, it had been the neverending discussion if women can do politics because 'they are too sensitive and tend to take every word literally'.
So, it really shows that this behaviour really exisrs everywhere, and if there's one good thing coming out of it, it's the dact that we are talking about it. Over the last weeks, I've read many articles about this issue, and the comments speak volume. It's usually women saying 'This happened to me a lot as well' and men saying 'This has got nothing to do with me, I'm not willing to take every word literally' or 'Can't I flirt with a woman anymore?' or 'But if Brad Pitt came along and offered them a drink, they wouldn't say no'.
Men (not all of them, of course) don't seem to understand that of course they can ask a woman to buy her a drink. But they have to accept it when she denies it - and maybe accepts a drink by Brad or - in our case - George. It's our choice! We don't have to accept an offer by any man who crosses our way.
Cate Blanchett said at an award show yesterday: 'We all dress sexy, and this doesn't mean we want to f... you!' I know we had this discussion before about 'it's womens' own fault when they are raped because they dress up and wear a lot if make up snd get drunk.' By the way: Wasn't that the subject about 'The Accused'? That's nearly thirty years ago, and we haven't come much further...
that's exactly my thoughts.
Is your career worth to live in fear and to be abused every single day?
Yesterday, the European Parliament (the parliament of the EU) had a meeting about sexual abued. Not a general duscussion about how to deal with it in each of its member states, but because female MPs and also employees talked about having been sexually harassed and even raped - by male employees and also by MPs.
The women also didn't talk about it because the employees didn't want to risk their careers and their jobs. For female MPs the problem us that politics is a mans world. So any woman complaining, it had been the neverending discussion if women can do politics because 'they are too sensitive and tend to take every word literally'.
So, it really shows that this behaviour really exisrs everywhere, and if there's one good thing coming out of it, it's the dact that we are talking about it. Over the last weeks, I've read many articles about this issue, and the comments speak volume. It's usually women saying 'This happened to me a lot as well' and men saying 'This has got nothing to do with me, I'm not willing to take every word literally' or 'Can't I flirt with a woman anymore?' or 'But if Brad Pitt came along and offered them a drink, they wouldn't say no'.
Men (not all of them, of course) don't seem to understand that of course they can ask a woman to buy her a drink. But they have to accept it when she denies it - and maybe accepts a drink by Brad or - in our case - George. It's our choice! We don't have to accept an offer by any man who crosses our way.
Cate Blanchett said at an award show yesterday: 'We all dress sexy, and this doesn't mean we want to f... you!' I know we had this discussion before about 'it's womens' own fault when they are raped because they dress up and wear a lot if make up snd get drunk.' By the way: Wasn't that the subject about 'The Accused'? That's nearly thirty years ago, and we haven't come much further...
carolhathaway- Achieving total Clooney-dom
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Re: George on Weinstein
I just read my post from this morning and would like to say sorry for all the typo errors! It was just too early in the morning.
I'd aldo like to add to my post that accepting a drink doesn't mean that we're willing to have sex with that guy (which some men seem to think).
I'd aldo like to add to my post that accepting a drink doesn't mean that we're willing to have sex with that guy (which some men seem to think).
carolhathaway- Achieving total Clooney-dom
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Re: George on Weinstein
Carolhathaway - I'm giving away my age, I guess, but I have mixed feelings about all this. Yes, women should be able to dress any way they like - but shouldn't they also be aware that different ways of dressing make different kinds of impressions on people and maybe invite different kinds of responses?
If you're going on a job interview, would you wear a latex dress slit to the hip? Probably not, because you know it makes a certain kind of impression and invites a certain kind of attention which you might not want. Women have been saying for years that they want to be take seriously and not treated like sex objects - and then they dress as if that's exactly what they are. It's as if they're daring men to look but not touch. It's the old "Do what I say, not what I do" argument. Well, shame on us for being hypocrites!
If you dress like you want attention, you're going to get it. If you're not interested in a man, say so and don't blame him for being attracted if that's what you intended in the first place. (Sorry if I'm preaching, but this feeds into one of my pet peeves: wanting all our rights without the responsibilities that go with them.)
All that being said, there is no excuse for a man forcing his attentions on a woman. Just be aware that, in our society, a lot of men feel justified taking their anger and frustrations out on women who they see as taking away their power in the world.
If you're going on a job interview, would you wear a latex dress slit to the hip? Probably not, because you know it makes a certain kind of impression and invites a certain kind of attention which you might not want. Women have been saying for years that they want to be take seriously and not treated like sex objects - and then they dress as if that's exactly what they are. It's as if they're daring men to look but not touch. It's the old "Do what I say, not what I do" argument. Well, shame on us for being hypocrites!
If you dress like you want attention, you're going to get it. If you're not interested in a man, say so and don't blame him for being attracted if that's what you intended in the first place. (Sorry if I'm preaching, but this feeds into one of my pet peeves: wanting all our rights without the responsibilities that go with them.)
All that being said, there is no excuse for a man forcing his attentions on a woman. Just be aware that, in our society, a lot of men feel justified taking their anger and frustrations out on women who they see as taking away their power in the world.
LizzyNY- Casamigos with Mr Clooney
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Re: George on Weinstein
Lizzy,
I know exactly what you mean, and I do agree with you partly.
Yes, women have to be aware of the danger of going out, dressed sexy and have a drink (or two). But men often use it as an excuse: 'She dressed up in a mini-skirt, high-heels, had a lot of make-up, danced and flirted with men, so she MUST have wanted sex, no matter how often she said no and cried!' And too often this opinion was shared by judges, the press and public. So, after having been raped, these women were also publicly judged by our society and were called whores.
This opinion also sees men just as driven by their physical needs: a woman dressed slinky / sexy means that men turn off their intellect and are 'coded' to want sex.
Which reduces men to be driven by animalistic instincts, and I know no man who behaves like that.
I though tell my 16 year old daughter to be careful and not to trust every friendly person - male or female - she doesn't know really well. And since she's mentally handicapped, the probability for her to be be sexually harassed is higher than for others. So we teach her to be suspicious - which really hurts me, but handicapped women are more likely to be abused.
I know exactly what you mean, and I do agree with you partly.
Yes, women have to be aware of the danger of going out, dressed sexy and have a drink (or two). But men often use it as an excuse: 'She dressed up in a mini-skirt, high-heels, had a lot of make-up, danced and flirted with men, so she MUST have wanted sex, no matter how often she said no and cried!' And too often this opinion was shared by judges, the press and public. So, after having been raped, these women were also publicly judged by our society and were called whores.
This opinion also sees men just as driven by their physical needs: a woman dressed slinky / sexy means that men turn off their intellect and are 'coded' to want sex.
Which reduces men to be driven by animalistic instincts, and I know no man who behaves like that.
I though tell my 16 year old daughter to be careful and not to trust every friendly person - male or female - she doesn't know really well. And since she's mentally handicapped, the probability for her to be be sexually harassed is higher than for others. So we teach her to be suspicious - which really hurts me, but handicapped women are more likely to be abused.
carolhathaway- Achieving total Clooney-dom
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Re: George on Weinstein
I understand what you are saying Lizzy, but you are also talking about some professions --modelling, TV and acting-- where how you look is a big part of getting hired. And since a lot of the roles for women are as window dressing or wife/girlfriend of, they are looking for certain qualities in hiring and sexy is not doubt one of those. So I see a lot of those women in a catch-22 in terms of what they wear.LizzyNY wrote:Carolhathaway - I'm giving away my age, I guess, but I have mixed feelings about all this. Yes, women should be able to dress any way they like - but shouldn't they also be aware that different ways of dressing make different kinds of impressions on people and maybe invite different kinds of responses?
If you're going on a job interview, would you wear a latex dress slit to the hip? Probably not, because you know it makes a certain kind of impression and invites a certain kind of attention which you might not want. Women have been saying for years that they want to be take seriously and not treated like sex objects - and then they dress as if that's exactly what they are. It's as if they're daring men to look but not touch. It's the old "Do what I say, not what I do" argument. Well, shame on us for being hypocrites!
If you dress like you want attention, you're going to get it. If you're not interested in a man, say so and don't blame him for being attracted if that's what you intended in the first place. (Sorry if I'm preaching, but this feeds into one of my pet peeves: wanting all our rights without the responsibilities that go with them.)
All that being said, there is no excuse for a man forcing his attentions on a woman. Just be aware that, in our society, a lot of men feel justified taking their anger and frustrations out on women who they see as taking away their power in the world.
I have not even seen these women say what they were wearing, so I can't assume that they were dressed sexy in any way. Are you assuming that they were?
Not sure if I understand your comment about wanting the rights without the responsibilities in this context.
fava- More than a little bit enthusiastic about Clooney
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Re: George on Weinstein
I like Cate Blanchett’s quote “We all dress sexy, and this doesn’t mean we want to f***you.” Exactly. If I feel like dressing sexy it’s because I feel like it .... not because I want to draw attention to myself. Sexy means different things to different women. But if you feel good about your body and want to show it a woman should be allowed to without being tagged as trying to draw attention to herself. I feel too many people still put the onus on women to control how they look instead of making men responsible for the way they react to how we look. That may be and has been the reality but it needs to change.
Donnamarie- Possibly more Clooney than George himself
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Re: George on Weinstein
We should all wear what we want and feel comfortable in if that happens to be tight jeans a low cut blouse then fine .
Men have to start being held accountable for their actions instead of the woman being blamed for his actions.
Men have been give an easy pass for too long, she wore that short skirt so she wanted the attention . No how about she wore the skirt because she liked it and was comfortable not looking for a man's attention.
There have been surveys and they have found that women actually dress for other women not men.
Men have to start being held accountable for their actions instead of the woman being blamed for his actions.
Men have been give an easy pass for too long, she wore that short skirt so she wanted the attention . No how about she wore the skirt because she liked it and was comfortable not looking for a man's attention.
There have been surveys and they have found that women actually dress for other women not men.
annemarie- Over the Clooney moon
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Re: George on Weinstein
Donnamarie - You're contradicting yourself. 'If you feel good about your body and want to show it", then you do want attention. You want people to notice how good you look. That doesn't grant anyone license to sexually abuse you, but I believe you have to be realistic that the attention you get may not be the kind of attention you wanted.
Fava - I wasn't just speaking about the Weinstein case or the movie industry where you might dress a certain way for an audition. I was speaking about women in general. IMO we need to be aware that things haven't changed as much as we would like them to. There are still many men, in all walks of life, who aren't enlightened enough to realize that a sexily dressed woman isn't always inviting their advances.
I think it is our responsibility to acknowledge this and not behave as if all men have evolved into what we would like them to be. In other words, dress any way you like but be aware that it can be misinterpreted and, if it is, know how to handle the situation.
Fava - I wasn't just speaking about the Weinstein case or the movie industry where you might dress a certain way for an audition. I was speaking about women in general. IMO we need to be aware that things haven't changed as much as we would like them to. There are still many men, in all walks of life, who aren't enlightened enough to realize that a sexily dressed woman isn't always inviting their advances.
I think it is our responsibility to acknowledge this and not behave as if all men have evolved into what we would like them to be. In other words, dress any way you like but be aware that it can be misinterpreted and, if it is, know how to handle the situation.
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Re: George on Weinstein
Lizzy,
'dressing sexy' might not mean the same for every person.
Somebody who has lived in a close community - let's just say he's Amish or comes from a country where all women wear a hijab and has been taught that all women dressing differently are wh*es - might be overstrained when coming to Europe and the States. Where all women are dressed in a way he was taught as unappropriate by maybe wearing jeans and a blouse, simply showing a bit of their skin. Which we wouldn't see as dressing sexy, but for somebody who was taught differently, it might be very sexy.
So what do we do? Wear hijabs to not overstrain him? No, he has to learn that. We had problems with young male refugees in public swimming pools where young girls and women certainly dress differently as in their countries - if women are allowed to go there at all or at least at the same time as men.
So that's a learning process for them to accept women dressed in a way which is unappropriate for them but normal for us. And like them, every man has to learn that lesson - and it can't be that difficult to learn...
'dressing sexy' might not mean the same for every person.
Somebody who has lived in a close community - let's just say he's Amish or comes from a country where all women wear a hijab and has been taught that all women dressing differently are wh*es - might be overstrained when coming to Europe and the States. Where all women are dressed in a way he was taught as unappropriate by maybe wearing jeans and a blouse, simply showing a bit of their skin. Which we wouldn't see as dressing sexy, but for somebody who was taught differently, it might be very sexy.
So what do we do? Wear hijabs to not overstrain him? No, he has to learn that. We had problems with young male refugees in public swimming pools where young girls and women certainly dress differently as in their countries - if women are allowed to go there at all or at least at the same time as men.
So that's a learning process for them to accept women dressed in a way which is unappropriate for them but normal for us. And like them, every man has to learn that lesson - and it can't be that difficult to learn...
Last edited by carolhathaway on Thu 26 Oct 2017, 17:51; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : added text)
carolhathaway- Achieving total Clooney-dom
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Re: George on Weinstein
Carolhathaway - I agree with you that it is up to men to learn how to treat women properly. All I'm saying is that until they do, women have to be aware of the effect their behavior and clothing may have and be prepared to deal with it.
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Re: George on Weinstein
Lizzy,
of course women always have to be careful since we are in a more vulnerable position. Of course it's possible to rape a man as well, but technically it's easier to rape a woman...
of course women always have to be careful since we are in a more vulnerable position. Of course it's possible to rape a man as well, but technically it's easier to rape a woman...
carolhathaway- Achieving total Clooney-dom
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Re: George on Weinstein
I still see that women are continually burdened with the responsibility of maintaining an image and behavior that doesn’t appear to invite unwanted attention from men. I feel this is one reason many men have not progressed in changing their bad behavior. As hard as it may be for us we have to do a much better job of calling out inappropriate advances and bad behavior from men in all walks of our lives. What we need to be is brave. To call it out. Women shouldn’t have to worry about how men will react to our dress. We need to speak out when inappropriate touching or worse occurs. If we keep on the same path we are on now nothing will change. These men who have been outed by their disgusting actions were exerting their sense of power over these women because they felt entitled. I doubt seriously that it was of any consequence how the women were dressed. But if in some incidences that was the case this is a man’s problem that HE needs to come to terms with.
Lizzy, I don’t believe I contradicted myself when I said ... when I feel good about how I look I want to show it. I didn’t mean that I want attention from others. It’s more about exuding a sense of confidence ... and how that makes me feel. Annemarie made a good point about women dressing for other women. Many women appreciate style and we always enjoy getting complements about our looks from our gfs ....
Lizzy, I don’t believe I contradicted myself when I said ... when I feel good about how I look I want to show it. I didn’t mean that I want attention from others. It’s more about exuding a sense of confidence ... and how that makes me feel. Annemarie made a good point about women dressing for other women. Many women appreciate style and we always enjoy getting complements about our looks from our gfs ....
Donnamarie- Possibly more Clooney than George himself
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Re: George on Weinstein
Donnamarie - No insult intended, but you're doing it again. Whether we dress for men, for other women or ourselves, if we want people to see how confident we are then that means they have to pay attention to us. How else can they see how confident we are and how good we feel about ourselves? If they didn't pay attention to us, how would they know?
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Re: George on Weinstein
Lizzy, I don’t want to belabor this point. I’m not insulted but there is a misunderstanding for sure. I can’t speak for other women. But I don’t dress for others so they can acknowledge my appearance or demeanor. I dress for myself and how it makes me feel. It’s my sense of confidence that matters. In essence, it’s all about me
Donnamarie- Possibly more Clooney than George himself
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Re: George on Weinstein
Lizzy and Donna,
I do understand both your points of view: Some women dress for themselves, others dress to get attention. When you see celebrities walking a red carpet, they usually dress vor the attention (do you remember Lady Gaga in the meat dress? I can't imagine she chose this dress because it's so comfortable.)
That's part of how the fashion industry works...
But nevertheless, women should wear what they want without having to fear harassment...
I do understand both your points of view: Some women dress for themselves, others dress to get attention. When you see celebrities walking a red carpet, they usually dress vor the attention (do you remember Lady Gaga in the meat dress? I can't imagine she chose this dress because it's so comfortable.)
That's part of how the fashion industry works...
But nevertheless, women should wear what they want without having to fear harassment...
carolhathaway- Achieving total Clooney-dom
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Re: George on Weinstein
And they should not have to fear that feeling good about themselves (which runs the gamut depending on the woman!) will result in harassment. Attention and harassment are 2 different things.
fava- More than a little bit enthusiastic about Clooney
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Re: George on Weinstein
OK, I give up! I guess I'm not making my point clear because I AGREE with all of you! BUT I still feel that as women we have a responsibility to ourselves to see things realistically. It isn't a perfect world yet.
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Re: George on Weinstein
Agrees it's not perfect. Also agree there are things that may make someone more likely the be the victim--this applies to any type of crime. It is a way an individual woman could try --and I say try because I doubt the reporters who were at interviews with Mark Helperin or were in their workplace were dressing inappropriately--to minimize risk by dressing down. Interesting article I read about why women blame other women for being victims (and this is not directed at you Lizzy). One of the most convincing theories is that it is a self-protective instinct. Theory is : woman subconsciously feels that if she did something that contributed to/resulted in this, and I don't, it won't happen to me. That makes me feel safer and more in control of my world.LizzyNY wrote:OK, I give up! I guess I'm not making my point clear because I AGREE with all of you! BUT I still feel that as women we have a responsibility to ourselves to see things realistically. It isn't a perfect world yet.
However, I'm not sure the way to move towards a more perfect world is to have women be more cautious about how they dress. I feel like that is just acquiescing to the status quo. The root of the problem is men!
Reading the accounts of the women assaulted and harassed--and some of these are famous, powerful women--it was striking how much guilt and self-doubt they felt afterward. This seems to be almost universal and one reason (among others) why they don't speak out. How f*ed up is that, that we blame ourselves for things men did to us?
fava- More than a little bit enthusiastic about Clooney
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Re: George on Weinstein
I will say this one more time and then I'm done. I DO NOT blame women for the things men do to them. I'm not saying you have to be cautious about how you dress. Wear whatever you want. Just be aware that there are a lot of men out there that haven't evolved yet and be prepared to deal with them.
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Re: George on Weinstein
This piece by Dana Milbank in today's Washington Post reminded me so much of George's words about Weinstein. Along the lines of: "I knew he was
a playboy and bully." Men need to clue in that the bullying often goes along with the harassment. This is what was in the plain sight of men, but they did not ackowlege/recgonize. As Milbank says: "I didn’t get it at the time, but sexual harassment and sexual predation are, at core, about the abuse of power. Not all bullies are sexual predators or sexual harassers. But most sexual harassers and predators are bullies."
Entire editorial pasted below:
How could I have been so stupid?
I was amazed by the #MeToo outpouring by women who have been sexually harassed or assaulted. So many women I know have been victims, and yet, I marveled, I had spent my career in charmed workplaces where such things didn’t happen.
But this week I learned that, earlier in my career, I worked in a place that was the very definition of a hostile work environment — a place that is now one of the most visible examples of the Harvey Weinstein fallout. Worse, one of my dearest friends was a victim — indeed, the one who first went public.
Michelle Cottle and I worked together at the New Republic in the late 1990s, as did Leon Wieseltier, the magazine’s brilliant literary editor who this week was fired by the Atlantic after apologizing for past “offenses” against female colleagues. Cottle published a brave and devastating account in the Atlantic on Friday, quoting on the record many women who say Wieseltier harassed them.
Cottle wrote of the couple of occasions in which “he hit me with an abrupt, decidedly non-platonic kiss” with “a hint of tongue.”
She quoted Vox’s Sarah Wildman, with whom I also worked at the New Republic, saying: “Leon cornered me by the bathroom and kissed me. I clapped my hand over my mouth and he said, ‘I’ve always known you’d do that.’ ”
Cottle reports many women’s experiences of being touched and kissed by Wieseltier. And then there was the “joke-as-threat”: that if she divulged something he had told her, he would (falsely) “tell people we’re f---ing.”
How could I possibly have missed all of this?
Cottle, when we spoke Friday, was generous in offering absolution. She didn’t tell me about it. She didn’t file a complaint. Even she didn’t know until recently how pervasive the behavior apparently was.
That’s awfully charitable of her, but undeserved. No, I didn’t know Wieseltier was doing these things to my friend and other women (and, in fairness to Wieseltier, he is accused of nothing like what Roger Ailes and Harvey Weinstein have been). But we all knew that Wieseltier was a flirt and a bit of a playboy and that he had a strong if vague reputation for being lecherous. Like many, I figured he was a harmless scamp.
But here’s what I did know:
I knew that Wieseltier could be a bully. At editorial meetings, he would harshly cut down those he didn’t like. I was advised before I took the job that if I wanted to get ahead at the New Republic, I needed to be on his good side. He would protect those he held in favor and sink those he didn’t. I was one of those he protected. I think he liked me. I liked, and greatly admired, him.
The list of powerful men accused of inappropriate conduct continues to grow
After the Harvey Weinstein scandal broke, many women have come forward against a growing list of well-known male figures with similar stories of harassment and assault. (Erin Patrick O'Connor, Nicki DeMarco/The Washington Post)
I also knew that the magazine was a boys’ club and that most top editors were men. The real power was Wieseltier, by virtue of his close relationship with the absentee owner; no editor could remain in place without his blessing.
Did that mean we should have known what he was doing? Not necessarily. But there were clues.
I didn’t get it at the time, but sexual harassment and sexual predation are, at core, about the abuse of power. Not all bullies are sexual predators or sexual harassers. But most sexual harassers and predators are bullies.
I met Mark Halperin around the time I met Wieseltier. Halperin, too, had a reputation for mistreating women. Until now, I hadn’t heard specific accusations. But I could see with my own eyes that he was a bully who, lacking Wieseltier’s charm, enjoyed power plays over colleagues and other journalists. Our president, likewise, routinely attempts to humiliate aides and opponents alike; is it any wonder that he has also boasted of assaulting women?
I and many other male alumni of the New Republic, feminists all, are shaken by what we’ve learned this week. We weren’t a conspiracy of silence, but we were in a cone of ignorance. My friend Franklin Foer, a former editor, recalls being uncomfortable with Wieseltier’s lewd comments when he first arrived at the magazine. But “they just seemed accepted. I said nothing — and certainly didn’t think hard enough about how those remarks would be suggestive of private behavior or created a hostile environment.”
Maybe this is because Foer and I were both members in good standing of the same boys’ club. “One of the byproducts of benefiting from male privilege is that it blinds you to the costs of the system,” Foer continues. “I abstractly understood this and even tried to combat it. But the toll wasn’t evident to me until now.”
Me too.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
men/2017/10/27/8cc06b00-bb52-11e7-a908-a3470754bbb9_story.html?utm_term=.531ab4cacb2f
a playboy and bully." Men need to clue in that the bullying often goes along with the harassment. This is what was in the plain sight of men, but they did not ackowlege/recgonize. As Milbank says: "I didn’t get it at the time, but sexual harassment and sexual predation are, at core, about the abuse of power. Not all bullies are sexual predators or sexual harassers. But most sexual harassers and predators are bullies."
Entire editorial pasted below:
How could I have been so stupid?
I was amazed by the #MeToo outpouring by women who have been sexually harassed or assaulted. So many women I know have been victims, and yet, I marveled, I had spent my career in charmed workplaces where such things didn’t happen.
But this week I learned that, earlier in my career, I worked in a place that was the very definition of a hostile work environment — a place that is now one of the most visible examples of the Harvey Weinstein fallout. Worse, one of my dearest friends was a victim — indeed, the one who first went public.
Michelle Cottle and I worked together at the New Republic in the late 1990s, as did Leon Wieseltier, the magazine’s brilliant literary editor who this week was fired by the Atlantic after apologizing for past “offenses” against female colleagues. Cottle published a brave and devastating account in the Atlantic on Friday, quoting on the record many women who say Wieseltier harassed them.
Cottle wrote of the couple of occasions in which “he hit me with an abrupt, decidedly non-platonic kiss” with “a hint of tongue.”
She quoted Vox’s Sarah Wildman, with whom I also worked at the New Republic, saying: “Leon cornered me by the bathroom and kissed me. I clapped my hand over my mouth and he said, ‘I’ve always known you’d do that.’ ”
Cottle reports many women’s experiences of being touched and kissed by Wieseltier. And then there was the “joke-as-threat”: that if she divulged something he had told her, he would (falsely) “tell people we’re f---ing.”
How could I possibly have missed all of this?
Cottle, when we spoke Friday, was generous in offering absolution. She didn’t tell me about it. She didn’t file a complaint. Even she didn’t know until recently how pervasive the behavior apparently was.
That’s awfully charitable of her, but undeserved. No, I didn’t know Wieseltier was doing these things to my friend and other women (and, in fairness to Wieseltier, he is accused of nothing like what Roger Ailes and Harvey Weinstein have been). But we all knew that Wieseltier was a flirt and a bit of a playboy and that he had a strong if vague reputation for being lecherous. Like many, I figured he was a harmless scamp.
But here’s what I did know:
I knew that Wieseltier could be a bully. At editorial meetings, he would harshly cut down those he didn’t like. I was advised before I took the job that if I wanted to get ahead at the New Republic, I needed to be on his good side. He would protect those he held in favor and sink those he didn’t. I was one of those he protected. I think he liked me. I liked, and greatly admired, him.
The list of powerful men accused of inappropriate conduct continues to grow
After the Harvey Weinstein scandal broke, many women have come forward against a growing list of well-known male figures with similar stories of harassment and assault. (Erin Patrick O'Connor, Nicki DeMarco/The Washington Post)
I also knew that the magazine was a boys’ club and that most top editors were men. The real power was Wieseltier, by virtue of his close relationship with the absentee owner; no editor could remain in place without his blessing.
Did that mean we should have known what he was doing? Not necessarily. But there were clues.
I didn’t get it at the time, but sexual harassment and sexual predation are, at core, about the abuse of power. Not all bullies are sexual predators or sexual harassers. But most sexual harassers and predators are bullies.
I met Mark Halperin around the time I met Wieseltier. Halperin, too, had a reputation for mistreating women. Until now, I hadn’t heard specific accusations. But I could see with my own eyes that he was a bully who, lacking Wieseltier’s charm, enjoyed power plays over colleagues and other journalists. Our president, likewise, routinely attempts to humiliate aides and opponents alike; is it any wonder that he has also boasted of assaulting women?
I and many other male alumni of the New Republic, feminists all, are shaken by what we’ve learned this week. We weren’t a conspiracy of silence, but we were in a cone of ignorance. My friend Franklin Foer, a former editor, recalls being uncomfortable with Wieseltier’s lewd comments when he first arrived at the magazine. But “they just seemed accepted. I said nothing — and certainly didn’t think hard enough about how those remarks would be suggestive of private behavior or created a hostile environment.”
Maybe this is because Foer and I were both members in good standing of the same boys’ club. “One of the byproducts of benefiting from male privilege is that it blinds you to the costs of the system,” Foer continues. “I abstractly understood this and even tried to combat it. But the toll wasn’t evident to me until now.”
Me too.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
men/2017/10/27/8cc06b00-bb52-11e7-a908-a3470754bbb9_story.html?utm_term=.531ab4cacb2f
Last edited by fava on Sun 29 Oct 2017, 14:21; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : word addition)
fava- More than a little bit enthusiastic about Clooney
- Posts : 1200
Join date : 2011-02-24
Re: George on Weinstein
Thanks fava. Milbank gave a really honest take from a man’s point of view. I think many would agree with his assessment of ignorance and blinders being part of the problem. The Weinstein story and all the others that have followed in the last couple of weeks has created a bit of a turning point for women feeling liberated from staying silent, and men thinking twice about whether to make inappropriate moves on them. But I also think if a workplace doesn’t have a strong Human Resources department supportive of women they will continue to struggle to speak out and male coworkers and bosses will continue to harass.
Donnamarie- Possibly more Clooney than George himself
- Posts : 5881
Join date : 2014-08-26
Location : Washington, DC
Re: George on Weinstein
Agree Donna. However, as some media figures have pointed out re the Fox news culture of sexual harassment, HR was there to protect the corporation/money makers and not individual women in less powerful positions. O"Reilly says "no one reported to HR." The women say "duh. HR was not there to protect me, but to make the problem go away." I'm sure the same at a lot other large companies with HR departments.Donnamarie wrote:Thanks fava. Milbank gave a really honest take from a man’s point of view. I think many would agree with his assessment of ignorance and blinders being part of the problem. The Weinstein story and all the others that have followed in the last couple of weeks has created a bit of a turning point for women feeling liberated from staying silent, and men thinking twice about whether to make inappropriate moves on them. But I also think if a workplace doesn’t have a strong Human Resources department supportive of women they will continue to struggle to speak out and male coworkers and bosses will continue to harass.
fava- More than a little bit enthusiastic about Clooney
- Posts : 1200
Join date : 2011-02-24
Re: George on Weinstein
I just hope that this scandal has a lasting impact. If I remember the last ones correctly, people talked about it for about one month, discussed what needed to change, and that was it. Nothing really changed - I know that often the harassment / rape started decades ago but continue to nowadays, there's a lack of understandinv that these actions are unlawful and have consequences even twenty years later (although in Germany, rape lapses after twenty years...).
carolhathaway- Achieving total Clooney-dom
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Join date : 2015-03-24
party animal - not!- George Clooney fan forever!
- Posts : 12430
Join date : 2012-02-16
Re: George on Weinstein
Yep I read about Spacey this morning. This is all so sad and Spacey’s behavior absolutely unacceptable. But it really turns me off to read so many of the Twitter comments. People are so sure of themselves that they want to be judge and jury. You can condemn Spacey’s behavior but so much said on Twitter is trash talk. Just like the comments when George spoke out against Weinstein’s indefensible behavior. Twitter basically trashed George ... with no facts to back up their accusations. Is this how people really get their news and form their opinions?
Donnamarie- Possibly more Clooney than George himself
- Posts : 5881
Join date : 2014-08-26
Location : Washington, DC
Re: George on Weinstein
Donnamarie - Yep! At least some of them, but I try to put them in perspective. If it makes you feel any better, there are 300 million people in the US and probably less than 1% of them are trolling the internet to play judge and jury. I guess it makes them feel important, The rest of us actually have lives to live.
LizzyNY- Casamigos with Mr Clooney
- Posts : 8190
Join date : 2013-08-28
Location : NY, USA
Re: George on Weinstein
Kevin Spacey sexually assaulted a teenager. When his victim finally worked up the courage to name him, 31 years later, he decided to throw the entire gay community under the bus by conflating homosexuality with pedophilia, and also declaring that being gay is a choice, two pillars of anti-gay bigotry that have caused real damage to real people for decades.
I feel EXTREMELY comfortable playing judge and jury for Kevin Spacey.
I feel EXTREMELY comfortable playing judge and jury for Kevin Spacey.
Missa- Clooney-love. And they said it wouldn't last
- Posts : 1887
Join date : 2011-10-16
Re: George on Weinstein
Judge and jury? Didn't Spacey admit it? Certainly did not deny it.LizzyNY wrote:Donnamarie - Yep! At least some of them, but I try to put them in perspective. If it makes you feel any better, there are 300 million people in the US and probably less than 1% of them are trolling the internet to play judge and jury. I guess it makes them feel important, The rest of us actually have lives to live.
fava- More than a little bit enthusiastic about Clooney
- Posts : 1200
Join date : 2011-02-24
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