The Serious Side - part 2

I'm waiting for him to say he'll pick up the security tab at Trump Tower instead of sticking NYC taxpayers with most of it. After all, he's soooo successful and soooo rich. If he really is as rich as he claims, paying this bill should be chump change for him!

Old Donald has said he is a smart man and doesn't need to be told the same thing every day. 
He says he doesn't need daily intelligence briefings. He will leave it up to the briefer's to decide
 when a development represents a change big enough to notify him.

Annemarie,
I guess that VP Pence will have daily intelligence briefings every day then. And he will tell Trump if it's important in his opinion...

Because somebody in this government will have to listen to the CIA...
I just wonder if Trump thought the same about intelligence if they hadn't suspected that Russia helped him to win.
By the way: Weeks ago Trump said that he'd won the popular vote as well if not millions had voted who weren't allowed to vote. Is this of any substance or just one of his usual gossips?

Yes so now he is a mind reader and knows how a supposed million people would have voted. He is so full of
himself.
I'm guessing he said that after he made the claim he won the electoral and popular vote by a land slide. He was told
he was wrong and had to say something.

carolhathaway wrote:Annemarie,
I guess that VP Pence will have daily intelligence briefings every day then. And he will tell Trump if it's important in his opinion...

Because somebody in this government will have to listen to the CIA...
I just wonder if Trump thought the same about intelligence if they hadn't suspected that Russia helped him to win.
By the way: Weeks ago Trump said that he'd won the popular vote as well if not millions had voted who weren't allowed to vote. Is this of any substance or just one of his usual gossips?

Carolhathaway,  There is no foundation for Trump's claim that "millions" of people voted who were not eligible.  I think he would like people to believe that millions of illegal immigrants voted in states like California, and that is just not true.

Trump says whatever will make him look good and will benefit his image. It doesn't matter if he lies or not. He has been confronted many, many times by the media with all his lies and he does not back down.  This has been his behavior since even before the election.  The birther issue for instance.  He will NEVER change.  

The media has to do its job and call him out.  Right now it's the Russian hacking issue.  I wouldn't be surprised if on some level  someone from the Trump campaign was complicit in this act.  There is obviously no evidence at this time. But I say this for no other reason than Trump has been denying the Russian's involvement in the DNC hacking since before the presidential debates.  Why would any other candidate not believe the U.S. Intelligence agencies?  It is in our national interest to be aggressive in pursuing an investigation into this hacking.   But Trump doesn't want to even talk about.  That is not an appropriate Presidential reaction to possible foreign government hacking.  This issue is not political.  Trump is making it political.  He's certainly not winning over anyone in the CIA once he becomes President.  He is in essence saying the CIA has bad intel and doesn't know what it's doing.

Trump seems to believe that anything that doesn't fit his image of himself isn't true, Period. If anyone disagrees with him (or many of his "surrogates") he just talks over them, ignoring questions or corrections, and just speaks faster and louder. He is now extending this mindset of "If you don't kiss my butt, you're my enemy" to the agencies of the US government who have been there a lot longer than he has and know A LOT more than he does.

Keith Olberman posts on the GQ website. He has recently posted a very novel way Trump could be taken out of the picture (completely legal and constitutional) fairly quickly after his swearing in. He's handing them ammunition for this move on a platter.

His 'oratory' style is interesting isn't it!? Just keep repeating the same phrase over and over again just like an advert........it's as if he thinks everybody's only got three brain cells between them.......

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/donald-trump-lockheed-martin-tweet-f35-stock-shares-value-hit-drops-latest-a7470046.html

So he's managed to quite literally knock another US company. Do hope people are treating his and his family's companies in the same way

What if he damaged the image of one of his rival firms by tweeting like that?
I can't believe that nobody stops him to tweet...

He is Donald Trump and will do what he pleases.

Trump's oratory style is clearly juvenile.  He is not articulate or measured with his words at all ... unless reading from a script.

If Hillary Clinton was the President-elect and was tweeting the sh** that Trump has gotten away with SHE would be eviscerated.  This presidency in the making is so disturbing to me.

I wonder if the people who work for those companies will still see him as the savior of the economy when their companies have to downsize and let them go. Seems to me he's doing more harm than good.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/12/politics/russian-hack-donald-trump-2016-election/index.html

Why would President Obama hold a press conference on this 3 days before the Electoral College votes?

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/electors-won%E2%80%99t-get-intelligence-briefing-report/ar-AAlELod?OCID=ansmsnnews11

How many of you believe this information will be use to thwart the outcome of the electoral college?

It is my understanding that members of the Electoral College requested a briefing before the vote. I don't know whether this will happen or not.

It is truly disturbing that Trump and his puppets can't see beyond his fat face to realise the danger of a foreign government meddling in our electoral system. All he sees is an attempt to deligitimize his "huge win". He couldn't be less qualified for the presidency if he were a lobotomized corpse!

Totally agree - and unfortunately already making himself look very foolish to the entire world i e tweeting about Alec Baldwin doing a skit about him tweeting, and now today tweeting and spelling the word unprecedented as unpresidented! Just think what could happen if the guy ever had a drink!

There's a reason why people choose not to have twitter.

It is truly unfortunate that American citizens are now asking if the rest of the world is now laughing at them...............

Lizzy and PAN:  Do you think those pledged to Republican Party will use the alleged Russian hacking to thwart the outcome of the Electoral College vote?

Ladybug - Those who are party regulars will follow the party line and do as they're told because they want a future in the party. Those who actually can think for themselves may go against their instructions, but I doubt there are many and I doubt it will make a difference to the outcome.

Short of Trump becoming completely incapacitated I think we're in for four years of fighting to keep our democracy intact.

And, PAN, we're not asking. We KNOW we're the laughingstock of the world! 

LizzyNY wrote:It is my understanding that members of the Electoral College requested a briefing before the vote. I don't know whether this will happen or not.

It is truly disturbing that Trump and his puppets can't see beyond his fat face to realise the danger of a foreign government meddling in our electoral system. All he sees is an attempt to deligitimize his "huge win". He couldn't be less qualified for the presidency if he were a lobotomized corpse!

The irony that Trump worked for years to delegitimize Obama seems to escape him.  The electors will not get a briefing before their vote.  I think very few will switch their votes--why would they want Trumpsters to harass them or show up at their homes or threaten them.  That is what would happen. In any event, I understand a change in the electoral vote would go to the House and we all know what the result of that would be.  

I think Obama held the press conference because 1) a year end press conference is traditional and 2) he wanted to get it out there, in light of Trump's refusal to acknowledge the Russian hacking or that it had been revealed way before the election, that there is overwhelming support in the US intelligence community for that conclusion.  I wonder if he regrets his decision not to do more before the election.  If he knew that Hillary would lose would that have changed his decision?  Unfortunately, Trump sucked all the press attention away from many issues that are really important.

The view from across the pond is, amongst other things, that most influential Republicans very simply do not want to lose their own, in many instances, huge wealth by paying increased taxes towards the good of the country or those less fortunate, be it towards universal healthcare, infrastructure or whatever.

They would far rather invest in more shares in successful companies that do that work so that they make more money. 

There's a word for that but it's not worth writing it down. 

There is also a deep suspicion that most Republicans will never vote for a woman President. 

When I was in America recently I was asked that very question and also what the world thought. And it confirmed your reply, Lizzy.

PAN did you see my post in the Amal In Texas... blog?  Did Amal Clooney speak yesterday?

Ladybug - Checked her on Bing and Google and the UN/General Assembly sites and found NO reference to her speaking there yesterday. Still, that doesn't mean she wasn't there.

fava wrote:The irony that Trump worked for years to delegitimize Obama seems to escape him.  The electors will not get a briefing before their vote.  I think very few will switch their votes--why would they want Trumpsters to harass them or show up at their homes or threaten them.  That is what would happen. In any event, I understand a change in the electoral vote would go to the House and we all know what the result of that would be.  

I think Obama held the press conference because 1) a year end press conference is traditional and 2) he wanted to get it out there, in light of Trump's refusal to acknowledge the Russian hacking or that it had been revealed way before the election, that there is overwhelming support in the US intelligence community for that conclusion.  I wonder if he regrets his decision not to do more before the election.  If he knew that Hillary would lose would that have changed his decision?  Unfortunately, Trump sucked all the press attention away from many issues that are really important.

Fava - I have to be honest I still don't believe President Obama was born in the United States.  If in truth he was not born in the United States, President Obama is a liar from the pit of hell.
 
Currently the only people harassing the Republican Electorate are those who want them to vote for Hillary or not vote for Trump.  If I understand correctly it’s only when neither candidate reach the required electoral votes that it is referred to the House.
 
I find it quite coincidental that President Obama’s final press conference is on Russian hacking and its possible impact on the Presidential election days before the Electoral college vote.
 
If I understand correctly the hacking involved the sending of countless bogus emails about Hillary Clinton when she was Secretary of State.  If so, where were these emails sent? Were they sent to the general public?  How do they know people voted for Trump as a result of these emails?  Could someone else hack the system and use Russia's footprint?  Maybe China. 

LizzyNY wrote:Ladybug - Checked her on Bing and Google and the UN/General Assembly sites and found NO reference to her speaking there yesterday. Still, that doesn't mean she wasn't there.

Thanks Lizzy, I looked and thought I missed it.

Ladybug - President Obama was born in Hawaii - which, last time I looked, is a STATE - part of the US! He is not a "liar from hell" as you so melodramatically put it. Compared to Trump he is the most honest man God ever created!

Not only is he more honest than Trump, but he is more ethical, intelligent, compassionate and dignified. I am proud to have him represent my country to the world. I can't think of any situation where I'd want to be represented by Trump.

Amen , Lizzy Trump is the devil himself and the fools who voted for him will soon see that for themselves.

Like you Lizzy , I couldn't have been prouder to have Barak Obama as my President. Something Donald dumb will

never be to me.

Lizzy and Annemarie if you found out President Obama was NOT born in the United States would you feel the same way?

Ladybug he was born in the United States I have no reason to doubt that.

ladybugcngc wrote:Lizzy and Annemarie if you found out President Obama was NOT born in the United States would you feel the same way?

The constitutional provision that the president be American born was included so that no foreign government could unduly influence or claim the loyalty of the president.  I have seen no evidence over the last 8 years, assuming for argument's sake that Obama might not have been born in the US, that he has ever put the interests of any other nation ahead of what he believes is the best interests of the US.  

If the determined efforts--and cash-- of folks like Joe Arpaio and Donald Trump could not uncover proof Obama was not born in the US, it doesn't exist.  For folks who do not believe the documentation Obama has presented, there is no way to prove to them the validity of the documents.  

ladybug, Why do you think Trump said before election that Obama was born in the US, "period"?

fava wrote:

ladybugcngc wrote:Lizzy and Annemarie if you found out President Obama was NOT born in the United States would you feel the same way?

The constitutional provision that the president be American born was included so that no foreign government could unduly influence or claim the loyalty of the president.  I have seen no evidence over the last 8 years, assuming for argument's sake that Obama might not have been born in the US, that he has ever put the interests of any other nation ahead of what he believes is the best interests of the US.  

If the determined efforts--and cash-- of folks like Joe Arpaio and Donald Trump could not uncover proof Obama was not born in the US, it doesn't exist.  For folks who do not believe the documentation Obama has presented, there is no way to prove to them the validity of the documents.  

ladybug, Why do you think Trump said before election that Obama was born in the US, "period"?

Fava - I’m sure President Obama’s road has been paved with good intentions.  I don’t believe President Obama was born in the United States; your reasoning only lends support to my view.  I don’t doubt in any way President Obama’s loyalty to the United States; however to be very honest my heart grieves that history will record President Obama as a President that did not meet the constitutional requirements to be President.    
 
I did not vote for President Obama, I’m not a fan of the Affordable Care Act and as you know I think the relocation of 10,000 Syrian refugees to the United States is UNTHINKABLE.  With that said, the thought he may have lied about where he was born is irreprehensible.
 
Trumps comments were very measured about where “Barack Obama” was born.

President Obama had no reason to lie , he knows where he was born.If he was not born here we would know nothing is a secret especially in politics. The fact that
none of his accusers have proven anything speaks for it self.

ladybugcngc wrote:

fava wrote:

ladybugcngc wrote:Lizzy and Annemarie if you found out President Obama was NOT born in the United States would you feel the same way?

The constitutional provision that the president be American born was included so that no foreign government could unduly influence or claim the loyalty of the president.  I have seen no evidence over the last 8 years, assuming for argument's sake that Obama might not have been born in the US, that he has ever put the interests of any other nation ahead of what he believes is the best interests of the US.  

If the determined efforts--and cash-- of folks like Joe Arpaio and Donald Trump could not uncover proof Obama was not born in the US, it doesn't exist.  For folks who do not believe the documentation Obama has presented, there is no way to prove to them the validity of the documents.  

ladybug, Why do you think Trump said before election that Obama was born in the US, "period"?

Fava - I’m sure President Obama’s road has been paved with good intentions.  I don’t believe President Obama was born in the United States; your reasoning only lends support to my view.  I don’t doubt in any way President Obama’s loyalty to the United States; however to be very honest my heart grieves that history will record President Obama as a President that did not meet the constitutional requirements to be President.    
 
I did not vote for President Obama, I’m not a fan of the Affordable Care Act and as you know I think the relocation of 10,000 Syrian refugees to the United States is UNTHINKABLE.  With that said, the thought he may have lied about where he was born is irreprehensible.
 
Trumps comments were very measured about where “Barack Obama” was born.

I don't know why my reasoning "supports your view"--I firmly believe he was born in the US.  It would have been many more people than Obama who would have needed to lie, including his mother, the State Dept of the Hawaii government, and the Honolulu Advertiser (which published a birth announcement in 1961).  But facts don't seem to sway those who believe in this racist conspiracy theory.

Interesting discussion.

How can somebody prove his birthplace? By his birth certificate. Which proves that Obama was born in Hawaii which is part of the States. But since you brought it up, I googled for it and found an obscure German website with lots of conspiracy theories including the one about Obama's birthplace. They had no evidence that he wasn't born in Hawaii but always wrote about the 'fake birth certificate' and repeated thatphrase endlessly.

fava wrote:

ladybugcngc wrote:

fava wrote:

ladybugcngc wrote:Lizzy and Annemarie if you found out President Obama was NOT born in the United States would you feel the same way?

The constitutional provision that the president be American born was included so that no foreign government could unduly influence or claim the loyalty of the president.  I have seen no evidence over the last 8 years, assuming for argument's sake that Obama might not have been born in the US, that he has ever put the interests of any other nation ahead of what he believes is the best interests of the US.  

If the determined efforts--and cash-- of folks like Joe Arpaio and Donald Trump could not uncover proof Obama was not born in the US, it doesn't exist.  For folks who do not believe the documentation Obama has presented, there is no way to prove to them the validity of the documents.  

ladybug, Why do you think Trump said before election that Obama was born in the US, "period"?

Fava - I’m sure President Obama’s road has been paved with good intentions.  I don’t believe President Obama was born in the United States; your reasoning only lends support to my view.  I don’t doubt in any way President Obama’s loyalty to the United States; however to be very honest my heart grieves that history will record President Obama as a President that did not meet the constitutional requirements to be President.    
 
I did not vote for President Obama, I’m not a fan of the Affordable Care Act and as you know I think the relocation of 10,000 Syrian refugees to the United States is UNTHINKABLE.  With that said, the thought he may have lied about where he was born is irreprehensible.
 
Trumps comments were very measured about where “Barack Obama” was born.

I don't know why my reasoning "supports your view"--I firmly believe he was born in the US.  It would have been many more people than Obama who would have needed to lie, including his mother, the State Dept of the Hawaii government, and the Honolulu Advertiser (which published a birth announcement in 1961).  But facts don't seem to sway those who believe in this racist conspiracy theory.

Fava - I'm not sure which "Obama" you are referring to.  To my knowledge President Barack Obama was born in Mombasa Kenya.

And your knowledge is based on what facts? And by facts, I mean supported by evidence.

I am beginning to think you are a troll.

fava wrote:And your knowledge is based on what facts? And by facts, I mean supported by evidence.

I am beginning to think you are a troll.

Ouch!!!!  The truth.

ladybugcngc wrote:

fava wrote:And your knowledge is based on what facts? And by facts, I mean supported by evidence.

I am beginning to think you are a troll.

Ouch!!!!  The truth.

Do you mean you really are a troll?!!! Shame on you!

He has his birth certificate that is the proof.  What knowledge the conspiracy theories that just keep being repeated. 

You have no proof just nonsense invented by those who don't like him.

annemarie, save your breath.  Apparently "facts" have no meaning in this discussion unless they come from some right-wing website that makes up its own "truth". I get the feeling that if she was in the delivery room in Hawaii when Obama was born ladybug still wouldn't believe he was born in the US.

And, ladybug, Donald Trump - who is not even president yet - has encouraged more foreign interference in our government than anyone ever before. He seems to have no problem with countries with which we have deep philosophical differences acting to destabilize our society as long as he thinks he can profit from it. He is unfit to be any kind of public servant, let alone President of the US.

These bs suggestions, that Obama wasn't born in the US are downright racist. The first black President of the US gets this thrown at him for years, even after he's shown proof that he was born in the US. 

trump has been proven to be a liar, multiple times, though. From his own twitter, from his own mouth. And he admitted to sexually assaulting women. On tape. Which was publicized by the press. But I guess that doesn't matter.

Ladybug, your claims about Obama are abhorrent.  As low and baseless as when Donald J. Trump first uttered these falsities about Obama's birthplace.  They are disgusting conspiracy theories and you will not find anyone here who will sympathize with your comments.
Not carolhathaway, fava, Lizzy, annemarie, Fingersandtoes ....

Donald Trump is a liar and opportunist. He is a danger to our country.  It's up to Congress to keep this lowlife in check!

Donnamarie wrote:Ladybug, your claims about Obama are abhorrent.  As low and baseless as when Donald J. Trump first uttered these falsities about Obama's birthplace.  They are disgusting conspiracy theories and you will not find anyone here who will sympathize with your comments.
Not carolhathaway, fava, Lizzy, annemarie, Fingersandtoes ....

Donald Trump is a liar and opportunist. He is a danger to our country.  It's up to Congress to keep this lowlife in check!

I have to agree Donna my claims regarding President Obama's birth place are abhorrent.

I am still enthralled by the shenanigans in America, as are the rest of the world....

I wonder if we are watching the demise of the career politician....Perhaps a new order....The establishment is rocked to the core by Trump....

If any other well known "business man" (Gates whatever) had thrown his hat in the ring...would it be seen as a change for the good...I have to admit, you have to loose it all a few times and get back up THE NEXT MORNING, to show true acumen jmo.

I said here during Brexit...Camerons lack of a plan B stunned me.  The UK was left without a word from it's Leader for days...what!!!!

Same happened at the American election...No Hillary, where the F*** was her plan B?....She should have been up, perfect hair perfect make-up looking for a recount...The strategy should have been in place....When Trump said he would order a recount(IF)  She should have jumped on it and said, in the event, ME TOO.....

You have to have a plan B.... But then, you would have to know what it feels like to loose the lot.. to know that....

What Would He Say wrote:I am still enthralled by the shenanigans in America, as are the rest of the world....

I wonder if we are watching the demise of the career politician....Perhaps a new order....The establishment is rocked to the core by Trump....

It is like watching a train wreck, isn't it? Or maybe more like watching a skyscraper being demolished like the hotel in Ocean's Eleven. One second democracy is there, the next second it's gone, lying in a pile of rubble.

The election side of our political process needed to be shaken up. Career politicians needed to be made aware that doing their jobs is more important than keeping their jobs. Unfortunately we elected (sort of) the biggest fool on the planet to make it happen. Pray for us.

Sadly despite this jolt to our democracy most Republicans clearly demeaned the character of their party by embracing Trump AFTER dismissing him during the campaign as a fraud and a phony (Romney's exact words).   They have not woken up and smelled the coffee because they have control now.  They have no reason to change their tactics or strategy now.  They have all the power.  I think it's the Democrats who have come to realize they need to change their game plan.  The "inclusive" party has not been inclusive enough.  They have four years to get their act together.

Berlin
And
Ambassador killing   

       Berlin
And
Ambassador killing   

Very sad news.  Ugly and senseless.

We the people have a voice we have to seek truth, apply faith, walk in hope, and apply wisdom that lends itself to non-violent solutions.

Surely this is illegal.........

https://thinkprogress.org/under-political-pressure-kuwait-cancels-major-event-at-four-seasons-switches-to-trumps-d-c-1f204315d513#.hpxawp4ji