Amal at a Yazidi refugee camp in Greece today

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She's with Nadia Murad and Gio is with her too

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Nadia is speaking at the UN on September 19th

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I bet George is so happy. Now he has his own Angie.

If  I was a betting woman a would take that bet.

If she learn from Angelina commitment means commitment not for PR.Angelina ppl say tireless and never break promise or commitment.Amal only just to start on this road.She can learn everything as Angelina is a wonderful generous lady.

I wonder why she put her scarf around that little girl's neck, held her hand to the van, then took the scarf back?  Seems kind of strange.  PR perhaps?

I think she was giving the children something, but asked for the cameras to be switched off. The film's been edited. So she probably swapped the scarf for something else

She has been doing this sort of thing for a long time, but of course we know about it now........

Amal has not just started on this road , she has been involved in these cases for years. She is also involved with other charities I am sure Amal knows exactly what 
she needs to do.

Why do women who do their effort to try and help others always get compared to Angie? There's enough petty comparisons in looks and fashion etc between women, why extend it to humanitarian work? It's not like there's not a lot of volunteering and work to be done, or that Angie is the inventor of humanitarian work. 

As for Amal, she really wasn't in the  public eye at all before she was linked with George, so any work like this or other humanitarian work of hers was done in less publicly.

Yesterday:

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thanks to the above

Amal is there as their lawyer gathering information and interviewing people. So this is more than a humanitarian visit.

The Times today

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According to German newspapers, Amal was in Stuttgart, in the south of Germany, today where she and Nadia Murad met the prime minister of the federal state where Nadia lives now.

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^
I'm hoping that we aren't all supposed to be Christians and bible believers in order to write on this forum. And I hope Islam and Muslims aren't tied to the actions of Isis, as I understand Muslims to be the ones suffering the most by the actions of Isis.

Ladybug,

ISIS uses rape and slavery as a weapon in psychological welfare, others have done that before, and Boko Haram does it at the moment as well.
So to say that this crime is not as cruel or important compared to others is wrong IMHO. What is the biggest crime ever? I think we Germans would have a pretty good chance to win that lottery... But these crimes led to the foundation of the UN and the Permanent Court of International Justice, set in The Hague. 

And I definetely agree with Fingersandtoes: 
Everybody here may believe - or not - what he / she wants, and muslims are definetely the ones who suffer most from ISIS. And if we want to start a discussion about that, let's not forget which crimes were caused in the name of god...

Fingersandtoes as far as I know we are all allowed to believe what we want on this forum.

Exactly.

Another article from Stuttgart

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carolhathaway wrote:Ladybug,

ISIS uses rape and slavery as a weapon in psychological welfare, others have done that before, and Boko Haram does it at the moment as well.
So to say that this crime is not as cruel or important compared to others is wrong IMHO. What is the biggest crime ever? I think we Germans would have a pretty good chance to win that lottery... But these crimes led to the foundation of the UN and the Permanent Court of International Justice, set in The Hague. 

And I definetely agree with Fingersandtoes: 
Everybody here may believe - or not - what he / she wants, and muslims are definetely the ones who suffer most from ISIS. And if we want to start a discussion about that, let's not forget which crimes were caused in the name of god...

I'm in complete agreement!

I think George news is bigger toda. If George to do well with project.everything else will to follow in good way and women all over earth will be not afraid of any more war crime victim to be.

Alisonfan wrote:I think George news is bigger toda. If George to do well with project.everything else will to follow in good way and women all over earth will be not afraid of any more war crime victim to be.

I have to agree.

I think they are both working on very important causes. Unfortunately any changes that will come won't come over night it will take time.
Hopefully, they will be successful in their mission.

With something as serious, as these causes are we can not afford to stay silent and hope.  We have to ask the tough questions, search to find truthful answers, ensure life preserving actions are taken, and hold all accountable those who directly or indirectly are responsible for violence imposed on others.

George is more special more world to change for good.Amal and many lawyers will be grateful to George in many years forward.George goes to route of world problem many many many. Amal take up just to one Georges will help her too as many more.

Alisonfan wrote:George is more special more world to change for good.Amal and many lawyers will be grateful to George in many years forward.George goes to route of world problem many many many. Amal take up just to one Georges will help her too as many more.

That seems to be the plan.

ladybugcngc wrote:
Carol I mentioned rape is awful, however I CANT NOT place it on the same level as MURDER.  Both are actionable by a court of law; however even in a court law they don’t carry the same weight of actionable consequences.  


The rape case mentioned in this forum covers a region of Iraq.  My point is a case brought before the International Court regarding the murderous actions of ISIS and their partners of evil doers carries across the Globe.


My question:  why bring rape as an order of contention before the court as oppose to murder?  One covers a region the other covers the Globe.


Carol and “fingers and toes”:  I live with the truth in understanding the quest of ISIS and their partners of evil does are to gain control of global wealth; death of any person (including Muslims) on this quest is viewed as justified killing by those who carry out the murderous actions.

Ladybug,
I do understand your point of view.
Of course Nadia and all the other sex slaves could wait until ISIS will be accused for terrorism, murderer and human rights violation including rape and sex slavery at the ICC. This could last decades, and I do understand that they want justice now, not in twenty or thirty years. If they succeed, this may also help the women who were raped and used as sex slaves by Boko Haram to accuse this organisation as well. And it might help to stop them.

For me, this trial would be an addition to an accusation for murderer and terrorism, not an oposition...

Nadia Murad said at the UN:
'Rape was used to destroy women and grls and to guarantee that tese women could never lead a normal life again.'
A normal life for her - in her culture - would mean to marry and to have children. A woman who's lost her virginity - no matter how - will never find a husband, so she'll never be able to marry and to have children, will maybe always link sex with rape, fear and pain. There are plastic surgeons in many countries (even in Germany) who reconstruct womens hymens so they will be able to marry - otherwise there would be no demand for that.

MY CONCERN:  rape being used as a case before the court that could open the door for an” ILL” intended “global” military response led by “evil doers” to gain control of the region?

I also understand this concern. But Nadia and Amal don't use rape as a case, it's ISIS which uses rape as a weapon of war. And I really don't think that ISIS needs this trial as an excuse for terror attacks...

Carol and Ladybug, I find your conversations on this are amazing, and so very necessary. Using rape as part of a method of war seems to have been with us forever.

It goes to show just how much a case like this being brought through the international courts on a global platform is so very much needed. And how very difficult and long it will be.

One thought which just came to my mind:
If the ICC would act in a trial concerning every crime ISIS has committed, i.e. terror attacks, murder, kidnapping, rape, sex slavery...
I guess everybody would just talk about the terror attacks in Paris and Belgium (usually the ones in Middle East don't get as much attention) and the victims there. As you said, compared to murder, rape seems less (I can't even find a word which really gets it) cruel and would get lost. 'Yes, you were raped and used as a sex slave, but you're still alive. So stop mourning and continue to get on with your life.'
So if Nadia and others DO WANT the attention for their case, it's more sensitive to have a single trial just on that.

Oh, I think it's vital, and of course it's not just her. It's who she would represent. That is why they were in the Yazidi refugee camp talking to other victims I think.

And whether the charges would be crimes against humanity as well.  I think it's a huge responsibility

carolhathaway wrote:One thought which just came to my mind:
If the ICC would act in a trial concerning every crime ISIS has committed, i.e. terror attacks, murder, kidnapping, rape, sex slavery...
I guess everybody would just talk about the terror attacks in Paris and Belgium (usually the ones in Middle East don't get as much attention) and the victims there. As you said, compared to murder, rape seems less (I can't even find a word which really gets it) cruel and would get lost. 'Yes, you were raped and used as a sex slave, but you're still alive. So stop mourning and continue to get on with your life.'
So if Nadia and others DO WANT the attention for their case, it's more sensitive to have a single trial just on that.

As a result of this case what happens to the rape victims when they are confronted with a court ordered "ILL" intended global military response?  ISIS does not work alone, they have partners of evil doers who believe they are justified in killing on their quest to gian control of global wealth.  They want access to this region of Iraq.  If Amal Clooney and other council do not DEFINE the actions of ISIS as murder the rape victims in this region will be murdered.


To date I have not seen or heard anyone including Amal Clooney define the murderous actions of ISIS as murder.

Ladybug,
what's 'I'LL'?

And I don't know if the statement of claim will be about rape or murder. But yet, they need to prove that women and girls weren't just raped but also murdered in this conclusion with rape.

ill:  (noun) a problem or misfortune."a lengthy work on the ills of society"
synonyms: problems, troubles, evils, difficulties, misfortunes, trials, tribulations;

source:  https://www.google.com/search?q=ill&rlz=1C1CHBD_enUS704US704&oq=ill&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.5344j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Thanks very much, ladybug!
I sometimes realize the limitations on my English vocabulary...

These women and young girls have been through so much and no one pays attention. We hear about the terrorist acts and how ISIS kills people more than anything else. 

These women and girls will have to live with the trauma they have gone through for the rest of their lives. In a way, they have been killed; their lives can never be normal. No normal relationship can take place for them as it was explained above.

I don't know what claim Amal will make but if this brings any justice for these women then it will be a  good thing.

As for which is worse murder or rape , once you are dead you feel and know no pain or suffering. These women and girls will suffer for a long time if not for a lifetime.

annemarie wrote:These women and young girls have been through so much and no one pays attention. We hear about the terrorist acts and how ISIS kills people more than anything else. 

These women and girls will have to live with the trauma they have gone through for the rest of their lives. In a way, they have been killed; their lives can never be normal. No normal relationship can take place for them as it was explained above.

I don't know what claim Amal will make but if this brings any justice for these women then it will be a  good thing.

As for which is worse murder or rape , once you are dead you feel and know no pain or suffering. These women and girls will suffer for a long time if not for a lifetime.

Until Amal Clooney and her co-council DEFINE the murderous actions of ISIS as murder these girls can NEVER receive justice.  A military response in this region can not help these girls or bring justice. 

Don't you find it interesting Amal Clooney does not talk about the girls who have been murdered in the region.  What about justice for them.  If we don't take a stand and insist Amal Clooney, council before the court, global news, National news, you, and I, define the murderous actions of ISIS as murder, the wicked, evil mindset of justified killing will continue. 

The accounts of rape can not be used to justify a MILITARY RESPONSE in this region or any place on the globe.

ladybugcngc wrote:

annemarie wrote:These women and young girls have been through so much and no one pays attention. We hear about the terrorist acts and how ISIS kills people more than anything else. 

These women and girls will have to live with the trauma they have gone through for the rest of their lives. In a way, they have been killed; their lives can never be normal. No normal relationship can take place for them as it was explained above.

I don't know what claim Amal will make but if this brings any justice for these women then it will be a  good thing.

As for which is worse murder or rape , once you are dead you feel and know no pain or suffering. These women and girls will suffer for a long time if not for a lifetime.

Until Amal Clooney and her co-council DEFINE the murderous actions of ISIS as murder these girls can NEVER receive justice.  A military response in this region can not help these girls or bring justice. 

Don't you find it interesting Amal Clooney does not talk about the girls who have been murdered in the region.  What about justice for them.  If we don't take a stand and insist Amal Clooney, council before the court, global news, National news, you, and I, define the murderous actions of ISIS as murder, the wicked, evil mindset of justified killing will continue. 

The accounts of rape can not be used to justify a MILITARY RESPONSE in this region or any place on the globe.

Amal Clooney is a lawyer who took a pro bono case, Nadya Murad's. Her case, and what has happened to her is horrendous, and she's brave coming forward, and sort of becoming the face of women who are still suffering under Isis. And Amal is doing good working with Nadya. There is nothing wrong going on here.

Could you please provide links or something, where Amal has claimed that Isis isn't committing horrible human right violations, and murders? I haven't seen anything of sort.

Military response is already happening, by multiple countries, very often.

I just found a Time Magazine article about Nadia which includes an interview with her:

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She described what happened to the people in her village. The men and boys were killed, women were kidnapped. Later, the older women like her mother, were killed because they were too old to be used as sex-slaves. She described everything what happened to her people as 'genocide'. So I assume that it would be wrong to i.e. accuse ISIS for killing her mother because this could be part of a genocide trial against ISIS. But Amal can help Nadia and other women to obtain justice.

I can not supply any link because I have NEVER seen or heard any account (written or verbal) where Amal Clooney has define the murderous acts of ISIS and their partners of evil doer as MURDER. 

Fingers and toes you made this statement:   "Could you please provide links or something, where Amal has claimed that Isis isn't committing horrible human right violations, and murders?"   I need you to send me a link where Amal Clooney has referenced the murderous acts of ISIS as murder.

The accounts of Nadya Murad and/or any rape victim is horrendous, however we can't send in a court ordered MILITARY RESPONSE as a resolution, that can only lead to more murder.  To my knowledge no court has declared the actions (occupation, murder, rape) of ISIS as illegal.  If you want justice for Murad have to court identify the occupation as illegal, the death as murder, the rape a crime,... and ISIS UNJUSTIFIED their actions.  That's a start.

Fingers and toes you made this statement:  "Military response is already happening, by multiple countries, very often.

My response:  a court ordered military response because of rape is not happening anywhere.

carolhathaway wrote:I just found a Time Magazine article about Nadia which includes an interview with her:

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She described what happened to the people in her village. The men and boys were killed, women were kidnapped. Later, the older women like her mother, were killed because they were too old to be used as sex-slaves. She described everything what happened to her people as 'genocide'. So I assume that it would be wrong to i.e. accuse ISIS for killing her mother because this could be part of a genocide trial against ISIS. But Amal can help Nadia and other women to obtain justice.

"Genocide" is open to interpretation, murder is not.  Did you find the killings reference as murder anywhere in the article?  

Carolhathay:  "But Amal can help Nadia and other women to obtain justice."


My response:  How?

An interview by Europe online with Amal about Nadia's case:

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This isn't a contest! It isn't a question of which is worse - rape or murder. They are both horrendous crimes that destroy their victims - murder physically, rape psychologically and physically. Anyone who commits either crime should be severely punished. (My honest non-pc feeling is that they should be shot, but that makes me no better than they are.)

Sadly, we live in a world where many don't value life and make up all kinds of lies to justify their despicable behavior. Women's lives are especially held in low esteem by many, and their pain is often considered unimportant. Only last week a judge here asked a rape victim why she couldn't just keep her knees together! Men don't get it and many don't care. After all, what are women for if not to pleasure men and breed? ISIS is just the worst of the bunch. Sigh. Some days I despair of the human race.

Lizzy , totally agree with you.

ladybugcngc wrote:

carolhathaway wrote:I just found a Time Magazine article about Nadia which includes an interview with her:

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She described what happened to the people in her village. The men and boys were killed, women were kidnapped. Later, the older women like her mother, were killed because they were too old to be used as sex-slaves. She described everything what happened to her people as 'genocide'. So I assume that it would be wrong to i.e. accuse ISIS for killing her mother because this could be part of a genocide trial against ISIS. But Amal can help Nadia and other women to obtain justice.

"Genocide" is open to interpretation, murder is not.  Did you find the killings reference as murder anywhere in the article?  

Carolhathay:  "But Amal can help Nadia and other women to obtain justice."


My response:  How?

Ladybug,
as far as I remember Amal will bring this case to the ICC in The Hague.

Carol, it's all in the interview with Amal - the link to Europeoline is above.........

ladybugcngc wrote:

carolhathaway wrote:I just found a Time Magazine article about Nadia which includes an interview with her:

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She described what happened to the people in her village. The men and boys were killed, women were kidnapped. Later, the older women like her mother, were killed because they were too old to be used as sex-slaves. She described everything what happened to her people as 'genocide'. So I assume that it would be wrong to i.e. accuse ISIS for killing her mother because this could be part of a genocide trial against ISIS. But Amal can help Nadia and other women to obtain justice.

"Genocide" is open to interpretation, murder is not.  Did you find the killings reference as murder anywhere in the article?  

Ladybug,

your question irritates me and shows the limitations in my English vocabulary. Is there a difference between 'killing' and 'murder'? I always thought it's the same. Is the difference on the penal level? Because, if I think about it, I can kill somebody accidently. Is murder always premeditated?

PAN,
thanks, I'd missed this post!

Carol 

Within some religous organizations, some killing is viewed as justified.  Actions defined as murder are not justified in any religous organization.  Within the Muslim religeon jihad is viewed a justified killing.  As long as the court national and internation do not define these actions as homicide/murder, the mindset of "justified killing will persist.  

It is not just Amal Clooney that has yet to define these actions as homicide/murder; International/National courts and Global/National/Local News, has yet to define these actions a homicide/murder.  My stand is to ensure the courts difine the actions of ISIS and their partners of evildoers  as homicide/murder .

The arguement  for a military response to address rape can not bring justice to anyone.  Justice by definition varies; methods to obtain justice also vary. If you are going to make the statement:  "But Amal can help Nadia and other women to obtain justice."   I'm going to ask you to explain.  It was not my intent to irritate you.

Prosecuting the Islamic State animals in international court for any crime is laudable and may make some people reconsider their ideas about "justified killing", but I don't see what practical use it really is. These men aren't going to come waltzing into court to stand trial and it's pretty obvious that if we were able to capture them we would have done so by now. The whole world has supposedly been trying to get them for years with no success. Why would we be more successful just because they were declared guilty in a court?

 Military force isn't working, and really isn't the answer unless we blow the whole region to hell - innocents included, since warning them we're coming kind of defeats the purpose - and is as bad, or worse, than what ISIS is doing.

I think George and John have the right approach. Get them through the banks so their money supply is cut off, but also pressure internet sites to shut out anyone who recruits for them or preaches their philosophy of death. Yes, I know I'm advocating stifling free speech but there are times responsibilities outweigh rights. We really are at war.

Indeed we are. In all its forms.

Daesh or IS has its own banking system, oil supplies, food chains, media, computer systems and are masters of Whatsapp, Twitter, Facebook etc etc and the number of sites closed down by Twitter and Facebook is in the thousands every week. Whatsapp is something they love because all messages are encrypted.

Of course some of those very things i e facebook, instagram etc are part of the evidence reaped by TheSentry in South Sudan's case but you can't really compare the two..........