The Serious Side

I've fallen strangely in love with Boris...

I've tried to figure it out, why in the last week I have fallen so heavily for a blonde....

For you that don't know Boris could be the "hottest" contender to take the Prime Minister role on foot of Brexit....To all intents and purposes, he is like Hugh Grants chubbier blonder brother.... 

He has that same lightness of being that I admire in George....That same "this is important but, persona"....

Boris makes me believe Britain could be great again...And why not!!!

They are saying the world will rock...I am so thankful that will happen, so different to some months ago when David Cameron went to Brussels to forge a new deal...at the time many from the EU were LATE for the meetings, and one cancelled altogether.( there are news clips of Cameron roaming, looking lost waiting for a meeting)...Hmmm they ain't cancelling now......

The UK has a power that is beyond comprehension and they have spent the last several years being "put in their place" by the EU, who saw the UK as whiney! and took every opportunity to "put down, put in their place"....

They (EU) never saw this day come...they thought the British had been subjugated by them the mighty EU....How wrong they were....

But only in the nick of time....

I visited my 97 year old uncle in the north of England a few weeks ago...in conversation I asked about voting...he lost his driving licence a few months ago, so a postal vote would be a good idea....Oh NO! he was looking forward to walking right in and marking OUT....
He said "he did not fight in the war for freedom (he was in Italy), and not to use that hard won freedom to walk to the voting station and use his democratic right to vote OUT!"
I paraphrase there were a few F's in there too...


Like sore losers the remain side wants another vote....they might as well have stood at the voting station, taken the pencil out of my BRAVE uncles hand and snapped it in two....And thrown it in his face....

And it can happen....the EU, the sore losers, don't play fair.... Please read link. (Nobody I know voted differently....So how did it pass!!!)
One word...corruption...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1054732/EU-begins-secret-drive-force-Ireland-vote-rejected-Lisbon-Treaty.html


And there hangs the dilemma.....

JFK said "Ask not what your Country can do for you, but what you can do for your Country"

The EU has taken that famed sentence and made a mockery of it....There is a huge generational difference, the young want IN, and more mature/wise want OUT......
The young say "You have taken away our future"......forgetting that "future" came at a huge cost, and yet the very people who paid the price, or watched first hand as their comrades paid the ultimate price...these wise wise people who have lived through the birth and subsequent decline of the EU chose OUT.....They put their Country first before, and have no qualms to do it again.....Seeing that the very reason it came about, has been lost in over priced bureaucracy and quango's of all unacceptable description.... 

I personally have a lot to lose (financially) My home is in the Euro zone, but I have an apartment in London, where I work a lot, only the day before Brexit, I put my apartment in London up for sale   Bad timing or what, with all the doom and gloom being spread about like cheap fertiliser ....
BUT I still salute the brave....Go UK many are right behind you.....

The gravy train is getting ready for a bumpy ride.....

And will if they so choose force another vote......but this time contagion is the their ultimate fear....

WWHS,
I think we all have this desire to live in a great country, 'make Britain great again', 'make Anerica great again', 'make MY country great again'.

The last two times somebody wanted my country great again led to two terrible wars, so I react a bit allergic to that...

The EU isn't perfect, there certainly are authorities within the EU which might be unnecessary (or we just don't know why they are there). I would also question why the MPs have to go from Strasbourg to Brussels and back for their meetings. But I wouldn't question the need of the EU in general because for me it guarantees freedom on our continent, and if you just think about 20 years ago, when neighbors in former Yugoslavia suddenly started fighting each other...

There are discussions in other countries now to leave as well, and I think it would be clever to wait and watch the impacts the Brexit will have on the British economy and society...

This is form 2008 


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/24/leavers-take-control

@IM
Yes IM that is from 2008....my point is that we, the Irish held a referendum and REJECTED the Lisbon Treaty....The Treaty could not become active unless ALL 27 countries voted on it....We flat out rejected it, the following days bear an eerie resemblance to what is going down this weekend...The EU was incandescent WITH RAGE....and as the article states set out to make us vote AGAIN.....

It took time and an awful lot of sculduggery....but...
They did (the impossible )...and we did.(vote again  )...and someone, somewhere became very rich.....And needless to say...the Treaty was passed....

The EU is drowning in FAT CATS....people not VOTED in to govern by the people of Europe....The only agenda they have is "self" and maintaining the status quo.....

This WILL ignite contagion....

People are saying the OUT campaign have no direction and inflated claims that were made pre-vote....Well welcome to the world the EU has created....Inflated ideas with no direction***....the UK is reeling because nobody believed this day would come...I see Cameron's point he does not want to deal with the "shit" this will cause come tomorrow.....Welcome to the real world Mr Cameron as PM you damn well should have thought about what happens Monday....Being PM is like being pregnant, there is no going back or being pregnant Monday to Friday only - its everyday till the end of your term....He damn well should know exactly what to put on his to do list for tomorrow....I think history will tell, they were so cock sure of an IN vote they were totes caught with their pants down.....So much for being in-touch with the voters:oops:.....

Tomorrow dawns and no matter what the day brings good or bad....the elected parliament of Great Britain should be in position pens ready to action the people vote....sadly possibly they won't.....Recess ends 27th and they have a whole 3 weeks before summer hols....
If you made it up, you wouldn't believe it....

*** Just like to remind people that I started a thread on Greece back very early last year...just before it came to the boil....However I pointed out that the real elephant in the room was the refugee crisis....The EU response at the time was "crisis what crisis" re refugees, only interested in cutting off Greece.....it took a further 3 to 4 months long past the 80,000 to get any response and NO HELP....

.

Much of the media are very much on the IN side....Please anyone watching SKY NEWS, do so with care they are appallingly one sided and pushing heavily for out right mayhem and a further referendum.....

What truly startles me is that for all the hoopla the referendum isn't binding! Parliament, if they so choose, can ignore it! Now I'm really confused.

But I can't imagine to ignore this referendum. This would tell everybody in Britain "We don't care what you think!"
And in the end - if I were British -  wouldn't take any other referendum serious, why should I vote if they ignored the results just because they don't like the result?

Carolhathaway - I agree. What I find confusing is, if the referendum isn't binding, why wasn't it presented as just a fact finding exercise to see how the public felt and not as something that would result in immediate action? It feels to me as if there were quite a few people who didn't think there would be consequences to their vote.

The referendum isn't being treated as "non-binding". It's being regarded as a done deal. I'm confused too.
Why would all of the UK and the world react as they did if it isn't a done deal?

Now you've got a petition. With 3 million signatures asking for a revote. Are most of those signers people who already voted to stay "in". Or is the majority those who are having second thoughts? How do you reconcile this response? As much as I might want there to be a revote I too think the referendum's result has to accepted.

Let it be a painful lesson to those who claim their vote doesn't count and chose not to vote or voted simply to protest but genuinely would have preferred to stay in the EU.

One thing which just came to my mind: 
Does the Brexit get as much coverage in US medias as in European, or is it just you Americans on COH who are informed so well?

It is literally everywhere Carol.  10 minutes of it in a half hour news program still this morning.  On all the news programs over the weekend.

Thanks Melbert,
so the Brexit does affect people everywhere...

I just saw a caricature: One Indian tells another one: "If we had just known before how easy we could have gotten rid of them..."

carolh, here in the states the Brexit issue has been a really big story. Headlines in the major papers and lots of talk especially on financial and political programs. One concern for the U.S. that has been widely discussed are the similar issues facing the UK also impact our country and there is concern how the UK decision might influence our presidential election ... in a negative way if you know what I mean.

Donna,
I guess I know what 'might influence our presidential election in a negative way' means - in a Trump way . But maybe people start to realize the impact of an act of defiance...

If I were American AND Republican, I would start to think if I should really vote for Trump because I always vote for a Republican or if it wouldn't be better to look at the programs and statements of the two candidates and either vote for Hillary or, if I couldn't bring myself to do so, decide not to vote at all...

That is what I was talking about when I said you don't have to vote. Some people don't like Hillary and don't like Trump but will vote for him so Hillary won't win. This is where I think not voting is a good thing If you truly don't agree with either's ideas simply don't vote. For those who can find things they agree with with either candidate then by all means vote.

Yep Annemarie. There will be people who can't bring themselves to vote at all. There are some moderate Republicans who will hold their nose and vote Hillary simply to try and deny Trump the Presidency. A small number of well known Republicans have already declared that they are voting for her. If enough Democrats don't vote this will hurt Hillary. And could cost her the election. I still think, at this point in time, it's going to be a close race. So depending on who you think is the lesser evil I feel people need to vote.

As much as I see Trump as very dangerous for our country there are those on the other side (Republicans and some Independents) who think the same about Hillary and will vote Trump because he at least represents change and in general will adhere to more conservative policies. They are willing to take the risk.

A big, big issue with most Republicans is the Supreme Court. If Hillary becomes President she will nominate a liberal for the court (there is a current vacancy due to Scalia's death a few months ago). And there's a good chance another vacancy will open up in the Court during her term. The Republicans more than anything do not want the Supreme Court to become liberal. That is why so many Republican Members of Congress are going to vote for Trump even though they dont like him or think he's qualified.

This is an absolutely crazy Presidential election.

Donna,
I know that Hillary is not beyond reproach, but I've said it several times: There's no 'black and white' in politics, every politician has to make compromises, even if it's just to support companies or industries in their district.
Sanders would have been an interesting alternative, but I guess that many democrats who think he's too liberal and radical would have voted for Trump instead. If there was another Republican candidate than Trump, a more moderate one, somebody like Sanders could have been an interesting candidate. But this year, it would have meant to have extremes on both sides.

And I think it would be a good idea to review the system of financing election campaigns AFTER this one's finished...

I just watched Brexit No. 2...
England lost at the European Championships in Soccer - vs. Iceland!!!

Carolhathaway - I think most Democrats see Bernie's agenda as too liberal to break the Congressional stand-off, so even if he got elected the best we could hope for is the status quo for 4 more years.

I don't think many Democrats would defect to Trump. He's a loose canon with no actual platform other than claiming not to be a politician. He says idiotic ambiguous things and then all his "supporters" and the media "talking heads" read into it what they think he said/meant when he really said nothing!



That the Republican party hasn't disowned him and totally shut down his disgusting rhetoric is an embarrassment for the party and for our country.

Lizzy,
it's the same here in Germany with this new party AfD (Alternative for Germany): 
Their leaders say things like shooting refugees at the borders or not wanting a black or a muslim soccer player playing for Germany because of their religion or the color of their skin. Then, after a lot of slamming, their supporters tell everybody what they meant by saying this, and then the leaders deny to have said it at all or their computers did it on its own ...

And it really worries me that people support them and share their thoughts.

Let me just say that to this Black American citizen, the idea of not voting is reprehensible. We do not have the luxury of that exercise of intellectual options. 

I came to dislike Sanders' rhetoric and his entitled behavior, and I have no reason to believe that he could accomplish a single plank of his platform, but if he had been the nominee, I would have voted for him. Trump is a foul-mouthed, low-intellect, racist bully who couldn't pass a fifth grade civics (or vocabulary) test, and he shouldn't be allowed anywhere near the Presidency.

Elections are about making choices. Nobody gets everything they want. You choose the best option. Not voting is an abdication of one of your few powers as a citizen.

JMHO, of course.

Way2,
for me personally the right to vote is also a duty to do so. About 25 % of the people in my country had no choice for 40 years, they had to vote, and they had no choice because it was a one-party election. And there are still so many countries where you can't vote or have no choice (or women or people from other tribes are not allowed to vote), that for me the right to vote is one of the most valuable achievements of democracy.
But if somebody doesn't agree with the politics his candidate wants and can't bring himself to vote for the other one, IMHO it's better not to vote at all than vote for the candidate of the party he's always voted for...

I agree with you Carolhathaway , the same way it is your duty to vote it is your right to choose who you feel will do the job the best. If neither candidate's politics are what you agree with then don't vote.

annemarie -I couldn't disagree with you more. If neither party's candidates agree with your values, then find someone who does. Join one of the smaller parties or vote for an independent candidate. And next time assure yourself that your party's candidate reflects your ideals by getting actively involved in the party and helping choose the people who represent you.

Too many people have suffered and even died to get the right you so easily throw away.

That is another right we have the right to disagree with each other.

I love ALL your thoughts on the right to vote...

One man one vote.

Except if your Irish the EU give you 2....One to vote the way you want, and one to vote the way they want....

Tell me dear friends do you think that is right????

I said here that Greece was the first crack in the EU experiment....I take that back The Lisbon Treaty was....Where we voted NO, but was told by the EU to vote again.....

Also, I saw David Miliband on Charlie Rose a couple of nights ago, impressive and with all the right credentials...BUT...yet again he failed to address the elephant in the room...

UK is in turmoil...being called racist and unwelcoming....There are people on TV non stop talking about racial attack...REALLY....I find that hard to believe....

To me the UK is the most welcoming place on God's Green earth....I love nothing more than arriving at a Northern UK airport hopping into a cab and the driver turns round and says "hello Baabes, alrout" (Baaab live jam, not babe like hake)....in a strong punjabi accent....

The elephant in the room is that many UK citizens have seen the Middle East and North Africa explode, have seen the refugees swimming for their lives....AND that is what scares them...not race....Race doesn't scare them BUT numbers DO volumes, multitudes...that's what scares them It's not race!!!!

Many outside London see everyday resources under huge relentless pressure....I can give you a page of examples but here is one.....One major City in the UK will have an extra unplanned for 5000 children come to senior school age in the next few years...there is no school places for these kids, so plan A is to share school time, first shift from 7.30 to 1 - Second shift from 1.30 to 7.....Sounds good BUT where does that leave traditional family life, you don't eat breakfast together, you don't have dinner together...you don't play with siblings....let alone the disaster of trying to maintain a job and juggle childcare......See education and the health service NHS are already on their knees before any refugee coming in.... black, white or pink with purple spots...It does not matter the colour or the religion IT'S the numbers....


ITS NOT RACE - ITS NUMBERS


AND this bothered me that David Miliband* should be more on the ball (we know him here on COH from meeting refugees in Berlin with George) did not realise this, he did speak of the influx IN 2005 (accession of Eastern European Countries) where 50,000 were expected that year and 500,000 arrived.....BUT that was over 10 years ago and the health service and education etc were not in such a bad state...we are talking 2005! a time before the financial crash!!! A time when money was available(sort of) for resources such as education, building of new schools and operating theatre.....

If now was then, the numbers would not be scary....as I said the UK is the most welcoming place.....It welcomes me.....

I do think the EU siting the UK's "over generous" social payments as the reason the UK is along with Germany has become the refuge of choice is disingenuous....to say the least.....BUT that's the EU all over.....

JMbiggobO
* also possibility of new Labour Leader.

I believe in the power of voting. If you don't vote you can't complain or be a part of a solution. It is a precious right in a democracy. And I think the referendum in the UK must stand as is and be accepted.

But clearly there are a number of UK citizens who either didn't vote because they didn't think the vote would go the "leave" way or they didn't think a protest vote to "leave" would actually sway the final outcome the way it did.


I think about our Presidiential election and wonder if Trump were to win. And possibly 20% of the population didn't come out to vote because it didn't like the choices on the ballot. The reaction? I think many would be outraged and in disbelief after the reality set in. And Americans might demand a recount or another shot at voting again. But it wouldn't happen. People tend to be reactive instead of proactive. And sadly they don't think their vote REALLY counts. It would be a horrible lesson. You can't sit on the sidelines and expect others to make the touch decisions. There are consequences.

Donna,
I absolutely agree with you!

Way2,
It surely wasn't the right solution to have a re-resolution or revote for the Treaty of Lisbon. I just checked, Ireland was the only of - at that time - 27 EU countries which had a resolution on that Treaty, in the other 26 countries the parliament or government decided. So for me it's the question if 4.5 million out of the 742.4 million - which is 0.6% - voted for 'No' (but that's the number of residents, not the number of eligible voters) can lift a decision for 27 countries.

Which would lead to the question if it's right have decisions of wide consequences made by 'ordinary people' who might just see their personal advantages or disadvantages. To be honest, the interviews after the Brexit were just fascinating. To hear 'I just wanted to vote against Cameron, not against the EU', 'I didn't know what the resolution really was about' or 'I never thought it could lead to the Brexis, otherwise I'd voted' were quite a good lesson IMO...

What Would He Say wrote:

... black, white or pink with purple spots...It does not matter the colour or the religion IT'S the numbers....


ITS NOT RACE - ITS NUMBER

WWHS - Your post brought to mind the plight of Jewish refugees trying to get to Palestine after WWII. More than half of 142 ships were stopped by British patrols and the passengers - many of them concentration camp survivors - sent to internment camps on Cyprus, Mauritius or a camp in Palestine. In the end there were over 50,000 in camps.

 The most famous of these refugee ships was the Exodus 1947, which resisted being boarded by British troops, after which the passengers were deported back to France. France agreed to accept them, but only if they left the ship of their own free will. When they refused to leave the ship, they were transported to Germany where they were held in camps  - some until Israel became a state and they could emigrate.

I bring this up not as a criticism of UK policy at the time - they did what they thought needed to be done to stabilize the situation in Palestine. But I wonder how many of those refugees were told "It's not race - it's number" as they were sailing back to the places where they had recently almost died. Just a thought.

@ Lizzy I do not know much about this...
Possibly it was all about number, but I really don't know....but numbers are a great equaliser....numbers or excess or uncontrollable numbers happen/relate to all....Race or religion don't come in to it....

Teresa May...who is fairy shrewd and steady, has announced her intention to run for Head of the Conservative Party....Boris has withdrawn.....I think T May made a show stopping speech....things may get very interesting....

Strange to think that by the end of the year we could end up with many world leaders women....

H. Clinton USA
T. May UK
A. Merkel Germany (EU)

Now, three separate, but important world regions....

That and that alone gives me "some" hope that the world might have a hope and  get sorted...That kind of makes me sexist....

What would Blair and Bush make of it all...

I read today that there has been a significant increase in hate crimes and verbal racial assaults since the vote last week.  Amnesty UK reported in a tweet that there has been a 57% rise in reports of hate crimes since the UK decided to leave the EU.

Just wondering how many who voted to leave saw the immigration issue as the driving motivation.

I think Trump has attracted his loyal following as much for the racial rhetoric as by his promise to bring jobs back to America.  He has yet to spell out his plan to bring those jobs back except for a few generic tactics he will use against corporations.  Trump supporters don't really care if he has a plan or if it will work or not.

Did the leave campaign specifically address how the economy was going to improve when it made promises to the people that they will be much better off leaving the EU?  Were they real promises or hollow rhetoric?
I don't know.  I'm asking the question.

My perception is that the public has been sold a bill of goods in the UK as in the US using race as a scapegoat for both countries' economic problems.

I could be very wrong about the UK.  Maybe the story I read is hyped.  But I see what's happening here with fingers pointing to "certain" people who have taken our jobs and are threatening our country.  It's so easy and less complicated than to understand that there are many factors that have played a part in stressing our economy and the middle class.  It has just as much to do with the technological advances in manufacturing that require a smaller workforce as it has to do with immigrants taking over our jobs or jobs being sent overseas because of cheaper labor.

Donna,
I watched a report on TV last night where the increase in hate crimes and verbal racial assaults were mentioned as well. They named Birmingham, where many Polish immigrants live for years, never had any problems, and suddenly the windows of Polish restaurants aee broken, and immigrant kids come home from school where others have told them to leave the UK because they are not welcome anymore. Let's hope that the situation will ease off...

I talked to my friends in our British twin town in Oxfordshire who were as shocked as we were about the results of the referendum (their area voted nearly 60 % to stay in the EU). Maybe it's also a result of twinnings, that people, who have really made friends in other countries, don't believe the propaganda during an election campaign...

I read so much of interest.I don't to see no increase in racial assauls.all same.

Alisonfan,
do you live in the UK? Or do you mean in general?

WWHS - It won't matter who's leading the world if the people they're leading are determined to hate each other. It seems that instead of trying to work together to solve our problems, we're pulling further apart every day.

I brought up the post-WWII refugee problem because it made me think of the refugees today. What must be going through their minds, knowing they can't go home but aren't really welcome anywhere else - even seen as a threat when all they're doing is trying to survive. Are we just planting the seeds of future resentment and distrust? This whole mess makes me very, very sad.

Lizzy,
it must have been horrible for the Jewish refugees:To have lost everything, survived from and escaped the Nazi regime, been on a ship for weeks (which certainly wasn't like a cruise), reaching a foreign country - and being told to leave, even being brought back to Germany and the Nazis...

I'm absolutely not proud of my country's history, we've started some of the most horrible wars and a genocide. At least this led to the foundation of the UN, the ICC and the EU. And that's why these organizations are so important: to prevent from starting new wars and to convict those who started wars.

Lizzy & CarolH...ABSOLUTELY. 

Refugees these days feel exactly the same and the level of disinterest from the rest of the world shows how weary the everyday man has become of the world order....

I have said time and again....NO REFUGEE WANT TO LEAVE THEIR HOME....no matter how bad or not to our western taste it may be....It's home, and home is home....

I have said time and again I have been to places where I looked around and thought I would crawl on my hands and knees to escape this hell....BUT it is in these places I have seen the families with the greatest JOY and HAPPINESS in their lives.....

There has to, must be a new world order....

I DO NOT BELIEVE IN ACCELERATED GROWTH OF A NATION....IT DON'T WORK...

You give your cash to Africa....the people don't get it.....but a "leader" orders a new jet...

The most precious thing you can give anyone is your time....not only in Africa or Mid East....even within your own family.....

I believe Kindness is contagious....give time to an elderly uncle or neighbour, listen to the same story for the 12th time...and somewhere in the world someone gives time to a village elder....and hears their story.....

Don't feel you have to travel or do anything dramatic....You don't....
I see what you have done Carol H. and know in my heart your kindness and that of your town will be richly rewarded....in time....

I hear what you say...and I was at the party before you....I had lost faith in the world in which we live....(about the time I came here to COH).....

It has taken time and a lot of thought...But if I don't have hope for a better world, how can I look the less fortunate in the eye....How can I walk easy street, and refuse to carry hope in my heart....while down the side streets the homeless settle down for the night in a cardboard box....I F****  well owe it to them to carry the hope....carry the faith....

As I said in my last post....something might change this time.....

I seriously am excited by thought of Women World Leaders....The Wholy Trinity....

Back in the Middle East, a Second All Female Coming and not a second too soon for Syria....

Let's face it they can't do worse....

Excited and Full of HOPE......x

Shhh...don't tell anyone...they will think I'm crazy...

Carolhathaway - There isn't a country on earth that hasn't, at one time or another, done something to be ashamed of. IMO, the problem is that instead of learning from the past and moving on many people hold onto the past and use it as a rationale for their actions. They feel they were ill treated (and maybe they were) so they want to change things so that they can come out on top this time. It isn't about what's best for the human race that has to share this planet, it's all about them - and to hell with everyone else.

Sometimes you just have to put on your big-girl pants and get on with your life and stop trying to get even. " An eye for an eye" just leaves two blind people.

WWHS - Bless you for your optimism and generous heart! With all my heart I hope you're right. I'm afraid I'm a bit more of a skeptic.

The fool has opened his mouth again, now he will fire all hijab wearing airport workers and hire veterans. I will be so glad when this election is over and hopefully trump will go back to his real estate.

Ellie Wiesel died today.  He was 87.

He won the Nobel Peace Prize in 1986. The citation read "Wiesel is a messenger to mankind.  His message is one of peace, atonement and human dignity.  His belief that forces fighting evil in the world can be victorious is a hard-won belief."

I just wanted to mention - because nobody had done it here - tgat Nigel Farage resigned yesterday as the leader of the UKIP party in Britain. But he wants to stay a member of the EU parliament to 'help other EU members who want to leave'. What advices is he going to give them? 'Tell the people every lie you could think about, they will believe them. And the make sure you're not the one to clean ul the mess!'

I just saw a comment by Christoph Waltz (he lives in London for 15 years) who said: "Of course the head rat would leave the sinking ship".

So now David Cameron, Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage all resigned...

Right carolhathaway. I am really amazed that the leaders of the "leave" campaign have washed their hands of the Brexit issue now that the vote is in. Nigel Farage was quoted as saying "I understand that not everybody in this country is happy." But "I want my life back, and it begins now." Makes you feel all warm and fuzzy doesn't it?!

And this guy Michael Gove who is running for PM. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. He claimed a while back speaking of then mayor Boris Johnson that he was unqualified. But then he backed him during the "leave" campaign to only then decide to backstab Johnson after the vote by saying again that Johnson was unfit to be PM. And I thought our American politics was crazy!

What must the Brits think of their leaders? It does seem that some facts were distorted or info made up during the Brexit campaign. Sounds familiar. I just have to look at our own election here in the states to see a similar scenario being played out. Trump continues to lie and con his way through the presidential campaign. Americans beware.

What they all know and prefer not to say (understandably!) is that whoever is Prime Minister will have to implement all the clauses of Article 50...........

Article 50 is an important part of the Lisbon Treaty and part of the EU mantra which was signed by all................and the implications for any politician putting the clauses into action could in some way be political suicide............

PAN, a mess and a challenge for whoever ends up PM.

Yep. And the current favourite is a very capable woman.

To give you some idea of some of the implications of it all is the Gibraltar connection. British but originally Spanish, and an important part of Britain's security and navy movements being where it is at the key point in the Mediterranean.......

So whoever is in charge may find it's a bit of poison challenge. Without doubt the lawyers are going to be very very busy whatever happens

PAN,
I never thought about Gibraltar! The brexit must be a horror for them! To 'be' between two different countries anyway, and now between the EU and Britain must be really difficult for them.
I guess that the majority there voted to 'stay'...

Carol, I have an awful feeling that almost half of Britain didn't think of Gibraltar! The fishermen were very concerned about their own access to the fish of the North Sea and the fact that the EU had told them that the fish on their doorstep could only be fished - and overfished - by for instance Spain, the North East was unhappy that so much of their industry was being moved by 'men in their smart suits' to other areas of the EU'...............I could go on..............

But now there are implications for Northern Ireland, and Scotland etc etc.

Oh and 30%, mostly the young, didn't vote..........


But, to be honest, I think it's entirely possible that this will be the start of the domino effect......the EU definitely needs to take a look at itself and how it's being operated because very many are disenchanted from what I read..............

PAN,
I absolutely agree with you. It's great that now everybody in the EU like Schulz says "We need to talk to the people, so they know what the EU does etc." Why the heck didn't they do it BEFORE the Brexit? Well, at least here in Germany they didn't, but I expect the ones who are in charge, to explain it at least in the country whose people are to vote if they stay or leave...

It's like an old fable...."Be careful what you wish for"....Oh that Pesky Lisbon Treaty....Blame it all on the Irish...we should never have voted twice, we shouldn't be allowed to vote at all!!!EVER....lol....lol

Article 50 made easy....

http://verfassungsblog.de/brexit-article-50-duff/

"The need to include a secession clause in the Constitutional Treaty (2003) and then the Treaty of Lisbon (2007) was upheld both by the federalists and by their opponents. Federalists saw the need to have a safety clause in the new treaty that would allow a let-out for any current member state which fought shy of accepting the leap forward in European integration that was at that time postulated. The UK government, aware of the risky nature of its ever-increasing exceptionalism, wanted a clause that would prevent the abrupt expulsion of an awkward member state by the mainstream majority. That said, none of us in the Convention ever expected the provision actually to be used – which might explain its relatively sketchy character. So it is vital to analyse very carefully what the clause says, why it says it, and how it is now to be deployed."

Sooo more for a Greek exit than a British....you couldn't make it up....


Shakespearean to it's fingertips.....

Will someone please explain to me why the Director of the FBI would be called before Congress by the Speaker of the House to explain his considered and multiply-vetted decision not to recommend charges against Hillary Clinton, but the asshole who's treating the Presidency like the prize on a reality show can accuse the former Secretary of State of bribing the FBI -- and by implication, accuse the FBI of accepting a bribe -- and not answer for it?

I will be happy to see Republicanism in its present form eradicated like the insidious disease that it is. November can't come soon enough for me.