December 2014 Chit Chat

pattygirl, that is a awful scene to watch. We know for sure that is Michael Brown? I only ask because it is hard for me to see his face that clearly. Regardless, I knew that Michael Brown was no angel when the video of him stealing cigars from the convenience store the day of the shooting was mistakingly released and aired. My take on what went down that day is that possibly the police officer could have handled the situation differently so Michael Brown would not be dead and the police officer would still have a job in Ferguson. I feel that the way the officer approached Brown and told him and his friend to get out of the street might have been handled in a less antagonistic way. But there is still so many different views of what when down during that confrontation we may never have the real truth.

I do feel that Brown has been put on a pedestal of sorts where he really doesn't belong. I don't feel that he should have lost his life over this incident with the officer. But once an individual takes it upon themselves to physically confront law enforcement you got problems. That's why I think the officer could have done more to diffuse the situation.

The video with the theft of the cigars wasn't mistakenly released. It was a deliberate move to taint Michael Brown and cover for officer Darren Wilson. The Ferguson police chief admitted as much.

Wilson did not know that Michael Brown had committed the store crime when he encountered him, so he was not stopping a violent criminal. This is according to the police chief, and Wilson himself in testifying before the grand jury. Wilson told two teenagers to get out of the middle of the street, and became enraged when they didn't. If Michael Brown had been killed during the commission of a crime, or was a known violent criminal, this wouldn't be an issue. But he was a teenager who was walking in the middle of the street in his own neighborhood. He should have been approached as such. It's not a crime to be big and Black. At least, it's not a crime on the books.

BTW, I'm not challenging anyone's position on this. People will think what they think, and feel what they feel. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts. As someone who's more than a little involved in this issue, I think I have a realistic picture of both Michael Brown and officer Darren Wilson. Neither of them deserve to be on pedestals, believe me. But Michael Brown also does not deserve to be dead. It can be argued, however, that it's a good thing Darren Wilson is no longer a police officer.

I think I need to be done talking about this.

Michael Brown was no angel.  But I believe had he and his friend been white and walking in the middle of the street, the tone of the encounter would have been different.

Eric Garner was no saint.  He was selling illegal cigarettes, however, neither of these men deserved to be killed for those crimes.

Did they do stupid/illegal things, YES.  My issue is the degree of response on both incidents was markedly different than if those two had been white.

Michael Brown probably deserved to be arrested and even jailed.  Eric Garner should have also been arrested and possibly jailed or paid a fine.  Those would have been appropriate responses to both those level of crimes.

Not death.

That's the point.

Yes.

My last post on this. Maybe. Depends.

Michael Brown and his friend were in the middle of a residential street that had little or no traffic. They were not impeding anything. There was so little traffic, in fact, that Officer Wilson was able to back up and make a semi-turn in the middle of the street to confront the teenagers when they didn't obey his order -- and not encounter any other cars.

That's jaywalking. A citation offense. Instead, Wilson threw his car door open, in anger, against Brown, and Brown pushed it back, knocking Wilson into the car.

So Wilson chose a physical altercation to deal with a jaywalking offense. It had nothing to do with Brown stealing cigars or assaulting anybody. (Wilson didn't even mention the cigars until well into his grand jury testimony, in which he described an encounter that is illogical, impossible to recreate, and out of synch with the little physical evidence there is.)

Why create an incident over two teenagers walking in the middle of the street?

Oh, yeah. Wilson was allowed to leave the scene of the killing unaccompanied. He drove himself to the Ferguson police station, where he "processed" and checked the gun he used in the shooting into "evidence" himself. He then washed the blood off himself and changed clothes.

Meanwhile, Michael Brown's body was left lying in the street where he was shot, uncovered, for four hours in the middle of the day at the height of a hot St. Louis summer.

He was shot 150 feet away from the police car. Remember that Wilson said that he felt he was in imminent danger. One hundred and fifty feet. And, according to Wilson's own testimony, Brown had to have been further away at some point, because he fired when Brown started running back toward him after initially running away.

It was a murder, and it wouldn't have happened in another, Whiter part of town, or with a White teenager who was walking in the middle of the street.

Ok, it's Christmas Eve here. Wishing you all a very happy Christmas and a very happy 24th December if you're not celebrating Christmas.

Way2, the bottom line is that Wilson could have approached Brown and his friend in a way that would have been less contentious. Ask them to please not walk in the middle of the street. Now Brown could have responded by ignoring Wilson or telling him to f*** off. At that point Wilson should have written a citation for jaywalking. But it didn't go down that way. And the moment that Brown got physical with Wilson well that was the beginning of the end. When Brown struggled with Wilson's gun that changed everything. My point again is there are many officers who need to be trained or retrained in how to confront and reason with people to avoid these kind of situations.

In your opinion you believe that a white teenager walking in the middle of the street under the same circumstances would not have been murdered. I can't be that sure to agree with you. And there are many situations around the country where whites are killed by police under questionable circumstances. There is currently a case where I live of a white unarmed man who was killed by the police right at his front door. In fact Senator Charles Grassley has asked that an investigation be opened to look into whether the police acted appropriately.

A very Happy Christmas to you Katidot. Eat, drink and be merry with those who are special in your life

Thanks, donnamarie. I'm having a serious case of the bah humbugs this year. It's a normal working day here, so I'll be in the office in front of the computer from 9am as always.

Happy Christmas everyone. I love the flying presents....I like to catch one hehe

To all on COH past and present....Happy Christmas....to you and your God.....and all the best in 2015!

Donnamarie wrote:Way2, the bottom line is that Wilson could have approached Brown and his friend in a way that would have been less contentious.  Ask them to please not walk in the middle of the street.  Now Brown could have responded by ignoring Wilson or telling him to f*** off.  At that point Wilson should have written a citation for jaywalking.  But it didn't go down that way.   And the moment that Brown got physical with Wilson well that was the beginning of the end.  When Brown struggled with Wilson's gun that changed everything.  My point again is there are many officers who need to be trained or retrained in how to confront and reason with people to avoid these kind of situations.

In your opinion you believe that a white teenager walking in the middle of the street under the same circumstances would not have been murdered.  I can't be that sure to agree with you.   And there are many situations around the country where whites are killed by police under questionable circumstances.  There is currently a case where I live of a white unarmed man who was killed by the police right at his front door.   In fact Senator Charles Grassley has asked that an investigation be opened to look into whether the police acted appropriately.  

I guess this is true. The thing is when white kills white this is no story even though one of them was innocent. But if a white kills black that always is a Story.

Maybe Police officers would be less so violent if they would be charged for it and go to prison. But they all get free. I still don't understand why a President like Obama can not speak up to change something. if not him who can....???

Oooooooooooo.......presents !
Thank you Katie. Merry Christmas
wherever you be.

Nicky80 wrote:

Donnamarie wrote:Way2, the bottom line is that Wilson could have approached Brown and his friend in a way that would have been less contentious.  Ask them to please not walk in the middle of the street.  Now Brown could have responded by ignoring Wilson or telling him to f*** off.  At that point Wilson should have written a citation for jaywalking.  But it didn't go down that way.   And the moment that Brown got physical with Wilson well that was the beginning of the end.  When Brown struggled with Wilson's gun that changed everything.  My point again is there are many officers who need to be trained or retrained in how to confront and reason with people to avoid these kind of situations.

In your opinion you believe that a white teenager walking in the middle of the street under the same circumstances would not have been murdered.  I can't be that sure to agree with you.   And there are many situations around the country where whites are killed by police under questionable circumstances.  There is currently a case where I live of a white unarmed man who was killed by the police right at his front door.   In fact Senator Charles Grassley has asked that an investigation be opened to look into whether the police acted appropriately.  

I guess this is true. The thing is when white kills white this is no story even though one of them was innocent. But if a white kills black that always is a Story.

Maybe Police officers would be less so violent if they would be charged for it and go to prison. But they all get free. I still don't understand why a President like Obama can not speak up to change something. if not him who can....???

President doesn't make law - Congress does.

Local communities are independent when it comes to how they recruit and train their officers.  For instance, Los Angeles has a very well developed training program and police academy.  Many smaller communities do not.  Because of the cost of training recruits, some police forces will put a time frame that an officer must serve in their city before they can transfer out and go work in a different city.

Many surrounding smaller cities often get either older officers who want to go to less violent communities or officers who may not have passed and/or been that great at their jobs in the larger city.

Also, IMO some smaller communities recruit what are basically wannabee cops who want may have issues that would not deem them suitable to be recruits and train in larger city academies.  They would not have passed psychological tests in cities where they do much more extensive background checks and do those checks for potential "problem" cops.

Not to say that smaller communities don't have good and even great cops, it's just that they probably don't have the resources and also pay structures that would draw better candidates.

So you have someone like a Darren Wilson who had already worked at one police agency that was so bad it had to be disbanded.  As the article at the link notes, that was no place to learn correct policing techniques.

So Wilson came from a troubled past himself - so where did he learn to deal diplomatically with anyone, let alone someone he probably considered inferior to him and who was not obeying his demands.

I certainly hope no one else in this country gives that man a job that would allow him to carry a gun because he has proven he doesn't know how to control himself - let alone tell anyone else how THEY should be behaving.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/darren-wilsons-first-job-was-on-a-troubled-police-force-disbanded-by-authorities/2014/08/23/1ac796f0-2a45-11e4-8593-da634b334390_story.html

Way2Old4Dis wrote:That's a wonderful Christmas story, PigPen, and in the spirit of the holiday, I will wait until Friday to burst your bubble. :-)

Unfortunately, I'm sure the six o'clock news will do that for you.  But inspite of any horrors that may occur... to all my pals at COH.. a Merry Christmas.

Katiedot wrote:Thanks, donnamarie.  I'm having a serious case of the bah humbugs this year.  It's a normal working day here, so I'll be in the office in front of the computer from 9am as always.  

Been there, done that.  Not much fun being at work.   Sooooooo, 6:20PM put on your party clothes and CELEBRATE.  Don't let the grinch win this one, my dear.

Everything Lorna said.

And this: Some of the smaller municipalities actually use their police forces to harass citizens to collect fines that support their city budgets. Speed traps, large fines for things like not subscribing to the local trash pickup contractor, and then the "court costs" of appearing to pay the tickets are the norm. If police are taught that every citizen is a potential petty criminal, then things are bound to escalate into violence. People who are just going about their daily business get tired of being treated like shit by the people hired to "protect and serve" them.

There is a group of lawyers in St. Louis called the Arch City Defenders that has been studying this issue for years, and basically spitting into the wind. They published a white paper that finally got attention when the Brown murder occurred. There's a good Washington Post article on it that came out in September, I think.

Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, Happy Kwanzaa, Serious Bah-Humbugs, or Apathetic Whatevs to all you COHers.

Just to follow-up with Nicky80's comment as to why can't Obamo do something. Well right after the grand jury decided not to indict Wilson and after the 12 year old was killed in Cleveland the President did convene a big pow wow at the White House to discuss what could be done to improve law enforcement in communities. I know Biden was there. Also the police commissioner of Philadelphia. Many other law enforcement types were there but my memory is not my friend right now so I can't give you many details. Body cameras were discussed at length. Think he was going to ask Congress to fund communities across the country to supply them with these cameras if they didn't have them already. There were other suggestions he made and were made by others at this meeting. As of now Obama is very committed to pushing policies that could improve our law enforcement system nationwide. LorneDoone is right though. Many law enforcement policies are implemented on a local level and paid for out of local budgets.

Ok. I'm done with issue until after Christmas! I'll echo what Way2Old said. Merry, merry and happy, happy to everyone here. Whatever you celebrate enjoy your time with friends and family. Hope everyone gets at least one thing they want for the holidays.

Way2Old  - This issue is too intense to deal with today. It's casting a dark cloud over what should be a time of joy and peace - SO - for the next few days I'm going to focus on the good side of life. To all my friends on COH, Happy Holidays! May you have a peaceful, jpy-filled holiday season with friends and family.

Yep, agree.

So... I had planned to get up early tomorrow and make a small Christmas dinner. My granddaughter is with her dad and other grandparents, so my daughter put herself down to work basically the entire weekend. But she has to start at 8am, which escaped me. So I'm making dinner now so she can have it to take with her.

I'm using quinoa elbows for the mac & cheese. This was a compromise. Last year, my daughter made the "mac" & cheese with butternut squash and very little cheese. It wasn't bad -- it was actually tasty -- but it was not mac & cheese. Sometimes different is better. But sometimes 'different' isn't what you want in Christmas dinner.

Also completely made up a green bean dish. Sauteed green and yellow onions, bell peppers, and minced garlic, added the fresh green beans, seasoned, and slow cooked until tender. Tossed in some crumbled turkey bacon. Not bad, if I say so myself.

Tackling the dressing last. That will be an adventure. Tricky business, and a family history to live up to. Wish me luck.

Way2Old - If you cook as well as you write the dinner will be great! Enjoy and have a happy, peaceful holiday!

Sounds good .

LizzyNY wrote:Way2Old - If you cook as well as you write the dinner will be great! Enjoy and have a happy, peaceful holiday!

Ha! I'm fairly disciplined as a writer, but I fly by the seat of my pants in the kitchen.

The turkey is not as moist as it should be. Quinoa doesn't cook like regular wheat pasta, but it tastes okay.

Nailed the dressing. :-)

Happy Holidays, y'all. All I have to do tomorrow is get up and eat.

... And just found a church that has Midnight Mass at midnight instead of 9pm. I'm on a roll.

(Yes, I'm a loud-mouthed, liberal, Black Catholic. I don't do the whole Catholic bit, but I think Mass is beautiful.)

Sounds fantastic! I hope everyone's having a lovely Christmas Eve / morning.

This is a traditional event here in UK,
on Christmas Eve......

Donnamarie wrote:

Ok. I'm done with issue until after Christmas!   I'll echo what Way2Old said.  Merry, merry and happy, happy  to everyone here.  Whatever you celebrate enjoy your time with friends and family.  Hope everyone gets at least one thing they want for the holidays.

Well Donnamarie, that's going to be impossible seeing as some British chick married him this past September.  But thanks for the thought!  brahahahaha!

So, WHO is you want Lorna?  And who's the British chick?

Way2Old4Dis wrote:Yep, agree.

So... I had planned to get up early tomorrow and make a small Christmas dinner. My granddaughter is with her dad and other grandparents, so my daughter put herself down to work basically the entire weekend. But she has to start at 8am, which escaped me. So I'm making dinner now so she can have it to take with her.

I'm using quinoa elbows for the mac & cheese. This was a compromise. Last year, my daughter made the "mac" & cheese with butternut squash and very little cheese. It wasn't bad -- it was actually tasty -- but it was not mac & cheese. Sometimes different is better. But sometimes 'different' isn't what you want in Christmas dinner.

Also completely made up a green bean dish. Sauteed green and yellow onions, bell peppers, and minced garlic, added the fresh green beans, seasoned, and slow cooked until tender. Tossed in some crumbled turkey bacon. Not bad, if I say so myself.

Tackling the dressing last. That will be an adventure. Tricky business, and a family history to live up to. Wish me luck.

I remember when I visited the US the first time the first thing I wanted to try was mac & cheese

So is mac & cheese and Turkey traditional american Christmas dinner? I spent one Christmas in the US many years ago but I can't remember what I ate. I might get confused with Thanksgiving. Or do you eat Turkey on both occasions?


My grandmother was cooking this Christmas (my aunt helped) and we had pork neck roast (hope it is the right translation). With "Klösse". I can't find the right Translation for Klösse but it is a different kind of potatoes very German   They look like this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kn%C3%B6del

And then my favourite grandmothers leafe salad with cream Sauce with onions 

and then for desert vanilla ice cream with hot cherries

and then later Strawberries cream cake. Home made

I ate like this is the last food I get for the rest of my life.

I'm so happy that I'm the only one in my Family who can't cook. While the others cook I watch and talk and set up the table wait until I can eat. And I check the clock too. I have to make sure every Christmas they don't take too long to cook or I starve to death     and I'm washing up dishes after   Yes, I'm a useful family member hehehe

thanks to Google,

That's kind of how the meat and the Klösse look like what I ate hehe

Nicky80, the turkey dinner is traditional here for both Thanksgiving and Christmas, but more so for Thanksgiving, I think. Christmas has a little more leeway, IMO.

You have to be careful where you get your macaroni & cheese. It's an art form. :-) In my family, you could be forgiven a few missteps in the cooking, but ruin the mac&cheese or the dressing, and you become the victim of derision for years. Joking, of course. But you won't get asked to do it again for a looong time.

I have never been to Germany, but I went to an "authentic" German restaurant when I was in the UK. Can't say I fell in love with the food. Lots of meat-and-potatoes dishes, and the seasoning doesn't quite hit home for somebody who likes Thai and Caribbean food. (Brit food didn't do it for me, either. I almost starved while I was there.)

I have a sister who likes to do the dishes but doesn't cook. I like washing my own dishes, but not at other people's homes, not even family.

PigPen wrote:December 26th, looked in the mirror...

And what to my wondering eyes did appear, but 10 extra pounds on my waist, hips and rear!

 Yep, that's me.

Good thing I only made a small dinner. The leftovers are gone after lunch today.

Way2Old4Dis wrote:

You have to be careful where you get your macaroni & cheese. It's an art form. :-) In my family, you could be forgiven a few missteps in the cooking, but ruin the mac&cheese or the dressing, and you become the victim of derision for years. Joking, of course. But you won't get asked to do it again for a looong time.

Ohh I believe that. I ate macaroni & cheese a few times in the States and I was surprised how different it can taste all the time. I even bought some macaroni & chesse packages from the Supermarket and brought them with me to Germany so my friends could try it too ( yes I was a mad american Supermarket Tourist - And I was amazed by your XXXL Packages and big Milk and Juice Packages hehe). I don't think I would be able to cook the cheese Dressing  

Way2Old4Dis wrote:

I have never been to Germany, but I went to an "authentic" German restaurant when I was in the UK. Can't say I fell in love with the food. Lots of meat-and-potatoes dishes, and the seasoning doesn't quite hit home for somebody who likes Thai and Caribbean food. (Brit food didn't do it for me, either. I almost starved while I was there.)

I just wanted to defend my German Food but then I read you don't like Brit Food as well so I'm fine with your Statement

But i want to point out (just to make sure you as an American know the full truth) German sausage is much better then the English sausage. And that's the full truth. There is nothing better then our Bratwurst  (Joanna I know it is hard to face the truth but I know, deep inside your British heart, you agree with me )

But you are right. Our Food is mainly meat and potatoes. But believe me if you go to south Germany the meat and potatoes there are even heavier then in the North.

Try to eat a "Hachse" with Sauerkraut. that's Oktoberfest Food   With beer of course




But hey we have lot of Chinese / Thai Restaurants here

Yeah... The only 'flesh' I eat are chicken, turkey, and fish/seafood; no beef or pork or 'game' meats. So I guess I could never be German.

Plus, I don't drink. Not even beer. So no Oktoberfest for me.

Nothing you buy in a box will ever be real mac&cheese. Your US hosts should have told you that. :-)

Next time you come to the States, find a soul food restaurant, but only order the mac&cheese, because chances are everything else is too fatty and too salty. But that will give you an idea of what home-cooked macaroni and cheese tastes like.

To our Brit friends did you get any good deals on Boxing Day or do you avoid the whole thing? It kinda sounds like our Black Friday here in the states - looking for those great deals before Christmas. In your case after Christmas sales.

All this talk here about mac n' cheese is giving me a craving. Maybe after I recover from all the holiday food I've ingested in the last week I'll have to whip a nice cheesy batch. There is nothing as comforting as pasta with lots of cheese

I hope everyone in the UK is heeding the weather warnings and keeping safe and warm at home!

We've got crappy weather around here in the States too.  Everybody, around the world, please be safe!

DonnaMarie.....yes the sales start on Boxing Day here.
I never bother with them.
The northern parts of Britain got heavy snowfalls on
Boxing Day but we escaped with just heavy rain !

Any of our COH family affected by the AirAsia flight or the Greek ferry fire ?
   Passenger, member of rescue/search teams?

that with the AirAsia flight is scary. Another plane just disappears. scary

Gatwick had some shocking air plane experience too today. scary week.

Sorry I can't copy and past the text and pics in the link. I got some "time out" error problems today. Is it only me? Guess it is a sign to lock off

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2890093/Hero-Virgin-pilot-lands-747-jumbo-jet-weeping-passengers-broken-landing-gear-fault-forces-return-Gatwick.html

oh my, tomorrow is the 31st. The year will be over...ohh so fast.


I'm still not a millionare, and not married and have no house and no dog and no garden and ah what the hell. 2015 will be my year

Nicky80 wrote:oh my, tomorrow is the 31st. The year will be over...ohh so fast.


I'm still not a millionare, and not married and have no house and no dog and no garden and ah what the hell. 2015 will be my year

I wish you well in 2015 Nicky.....but "be carful what you wish for"
as the saying goes. LOL

My new year's resolution is to get laid. Is that appropriate?

I guess so

Somebody is talking naughty things on the last day of 2014...

Katidot, you've got 365 days to make that happen. You go girl! Sooner than later would be nice tho. Don't you think?

Katiedot wrote:My new year's resolution is to get laid.  Is that appropriate?

Always !