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Open letter to George Clooney regarding his fiance’s comments

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Post by Katiedot Fri 22 Aug 2014, 12:41

Here we go. A letter from someone who thinks it's ok to dictate to George what he does in his private life because they don't allow freedom of opinion and think it's fine to threaten his career if he doesn't behave the way they want him too. Link from Henway:

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Open letter to George Clooney regarding his fiance’s comments
By davidgroen1

george-clooneyDear Mr. Clooney,

I am writing this letter to you because I feel it is extremely important that you become fully aware of the impact your fiance’s carefully chosen words have had on the Jewish community. I also wish to ask you some questions so that people know where you stand regarding Israel and the Jewish people.

The words I am referring to, the words of your fiance, were part of a statement she made when turning down a place on the panel created to investigate Israel’s tactics in the most recent war against Hamas, which as you know is a terrorist organization. She said the following: “I am horrified by the situation in the occupied Gaza Strip, particularly the civilian casualties and strongly believe that there should be an independent investigation and accountability for crimes that have been committed.” I was greatly disappointed with her use of the term “occupied Gaza Strip”, which besides being totally inaccurate, also reveals a strong anti-Israel bias. Israel does not occupy Gaza, in fact it does not even want a presence there. It is only defending itself against a terrorist organization committed to its destruction. A terrorist organization that runs Gaza with such a strong hand it should actually be called the occupier. Her words also imply that Israel is guilty of crimes even though they are preceded with a call for an independent investigation. It sounds very much like she has already decided the outcome of that investigation.

One of the main reasons I am writing to you Mr. Clooney, is because there is a sentiment within the Jewish community that your movies should be boycotted based on Ms. Alamuddin’s stance and your close personal ties to her. In a discussion I had on social media someone specifically requested that I write this letter to you and do so with an open mind. Although I believe Israel and the Jewish people do not have much margin for error when it comes to tolerating any unmerited attacks, I will ask you some questions rather than accuse you of something I do not know to be fact. And as you read this, please understand that as a Jew and as a Zionist, I feel that fair treatment would have been sufficient from Ms. Alamuddin when assessing the situation in Gaza. Unfortunately that was not what we received.

The first question is a very direct one. Do you support your fiance’s anti-Israel stance? Normally I would not have a problem with someone in the entertainment industry being quiet about Israel and the recent war in Gaza. Quite frankly, with some of the incredulous political comments that come out of Hollywood, I sometimes prefer the entertainer that remains silent and non-political. Unfortunately your fiance has put you in the position where your response is not only relevant but required. And although you may look at this and say, “who does this guy think he is? I don’t owe him any answers”, the truth is you do owe the Jewish community answers. We have been supportive of your career and to some extent instrumental in your success. You do not owe me anything personally, but you do owe it to the Jewish people to show where you stand.

What I find ironic is that like so many other celebrities and politicians, your fiance has remained quiet about the atrocities taking place at the hands of ISIL. Although often referred to as ISIS or IS, I am purposely using the name ISIL, the name they use when referring to their wider regional ambitions, ambitions that very much include her native country of Lebanon. I understand that Ms. Alamuddin is Druze which makes her words now and lack of words earlier even harder for me to comprehend. Back in December, ISIL imposed Sharia Law on the Druze in the Syrian district of Idlib, forcing 30,000 of her fellow Druze into a life they did not choose, but one they needed to accept or face death. It baffles me that your fiance remained quiet regarding this direct persecution of people of her very own faith. And as a Druze, I would think she would not be so eager to indict Israel when Israel has not only allowed the Druze to live freely within its borders, it has helped them develop into an important group in Israeli society through service in the IDF and as politicians. What may be the most difficult thing for me to understand however, is how a woman whose family fled Lebanon during a Civil War very much started by groups similar in ideology to Hamas, would jump on the bandwagon against the one country willing to fight them. Let me add that I realize she is Lebanese, but she has also spent much of her life in Britain, and knowing the benefits of western civilization, why would she do the bidding of an organization fighting against everything western civilization stands for? It makes no sense to me and frankly, as an intelligent man it should make no sense to you as well.

It’s possible that in making her statement but refusing a spot on the panel your fiance felt she was diplomatically playing both sides of the fence. If that was her intention, her comments referring to Gaza as occupied and her statement of certainty that crimes were committed before an investigation even commences, makes it so that many in the Jewish community feels she lacks any degree of objectivity. It’s also possible that your involvement was to ask her to not be on the panel and that you thought by her turning down the position it would be enough to satisfy the pro-Israel lobby. I am here to tell you that if that is the case, it is not enough. I don’t expect everyone to express unconditional support for Israel, but when assessing this recent conflict, an unfair bias against Israel expresses a far more negative sentiment, not only towards Israel, but towards the Jewish people as a whole.

If you are not prepared to make a stand and show an objective fairness or if you remain silent and attempt to not get involved, you would deserve to lose Jewish support. Your inaction and silence would imply agreement on your part and as a Jew it would tell me that you have very little affection and respect for who we are. Under those circumstances, why should any of us spend our time or money on any of your projects? Personally I hope you do not remain silent because I have enjoyed your work, but the future and well-being of the State of Israel is far more important to me than your entertainment value.

So I ask you Mr. Clooney, are you going to do the right thing or the easy thing? I hope you understand the seriousness of this situation and seriously consider what you say or do moving forward. I suspect it may have an impact on your career.

Sincerely,

David Groen
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Post by phys major Fri 22 Aug 2014, 12:49

WTF katie George does it to people all the time!!! Of course thats okay because he's a "celebrity" and "celebrities are Gods right??
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Post by phys major Fri 22 Aug 2014, 13:01

What I would like to know is how many anti~semtics, besides the obvious are trolling this website?? 
Horrifying whats happening in the world and all you can say katie is, poor George people are picking on him again!!!
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Post by party animal - not! Fri 22 Aug 2014, 13:23

Can we please take one step back?

The problem is the phrase 'occupied Gaza strip'?

So occupied by Hamas (since the Gaza strip is part of Palestine)! That was my reading of the phrase

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Post by Atalante Fri 22 Aug 2014, 13:44

Are you a zionist yourself phys major ?
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Post by Way2Old4Dis Fri 22 Aug 2014, 13:46

Well, it's not like there are any Jewish people involved in making George Clooney movies who would be hurt by Jews boycotting George Clooney movies because his apparently ungrateful fiancee with one Druze parent said something somebody didn't like when she turned down a job...

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Post by Lakin460 Fri 22 Aug 2014, 14:28

I've been waiting for this to come out and whether this open letter is the event to force a response or it's a similar call later on, I think George is going to have to address this issue and in no vague manner.
He is a high profile figure, globally recognized for his work in entertainment & aggressive advocacy of human rights.  He's been honored by Spielburg's Shoah Foundation (hope I spelled that correctly) & is intimately & professionally connected to people of the Jewish faith.  IMO it behooves him to clear up any ambiguity.  To opt to remain silent would damage his credibility, especially when he's been so vocal on political issues in the past & in defense of the Daily Mail's inflamatory slander of his fiance's ties to the Druze community.  I will be watching to see how he handles this polarizing issue.

For the record, I support Israel's right to defend themselves against terrorists.
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Post by PigPen Fri 22 Aug 2014, 14:41

I'm surprised it took this long for this to come forth. Though, I imagine it has been a topic of conversation in LA for some time.

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Post by fava Fri 22 Aug 2014, 14:42

Have we not moved on from the days when a male spouse/spouse to be is somehow responsible for the woman and her actions/words?  If they want to call out Amal, call out Amal.  She has her own opinions and they may or may not differ from his. They are using George's name to get attention.  I don't see an "open letter" to people who might really have a chance to make an impact on the situation.

Are celebrities really required to take a public stand on every issue?  I think they get into the most trouble when they take a stand on issues that they know nothing about.  If  the judgements of celebs like George (no offense meant to you or your opinions George!) really matter to foreign policy, international conflicts, etc., the world really is a mess....

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Post by Lakin460 Fri 22 Aug 2014, 15:16

Foreign policy, international conflicts, etc. ARE impacted by celebrities who use their influence, financial & otherwise, in the support of elected policy makers.  And no, celebrities aren't required to comment on everything.  But George IS connected to these issues by association & by his outspoken defense of the President.  I am not insisting he comment. I am saying IMO it's a mounting issue that presses upon him to address.  From what I see, it's a fine line & potentially detrimental to remain silent.
And frankly yes, I think who you choose to marry, especially if it's an international & sensational event, creates an expectation of solidarity on important issues that define the career of either spouse.
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Post by The next mrs clooney Fri 22 Aug 2014, 15:30

fava wrote:Have we not moved on from the days when a male spouse/spouse to be is somehow responsible for the woman and her actions/words?  If they want to call out Amal, call out Amal.  She has her own opinions and they may or may not differ from his. They are using George's name to get attention.  I don't see an "open letter" to people who might really have a chance to make an impact on the situation.

Are celebrities really required to take a public stand on every issue?  I think they get into the most trouble when they take a stand on issues that they know nothing about.  If  the judgements of celebs like George (no offense meant to you or your opinions George!) really matter to foreign policy, international conflicts, etc., the world really is a mess....
Couldn't agree with you more Fava.  This should be an open letter to Amal since she is the one that made the comment.  However an open letter to Amal doesn't get the type of coverage the person so obviously wants so throw in George's name to get more coverage.  Hopefully George will not sink so low as to even comment on this crap.
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Post by Cece42 Fri 22 Aug 2014, 18:05

If it wasn't for George no one would know who she is,if he can comment on her mother than he certainly should have a comment on his fiance and her views.

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Post by LornaDoone Fri 22 Aug 2014, 18:19

Seems this is what I feared long ago and made comment upon in this forum. His marriage to a pro-Palestinian woman may well affect his relationships with those in Hollywood with whom he may work in the future.
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Post by PigPen Fri 22 Aug 2014, 18:24

In total agreement Lorna.  But I'm sure George weighed all this, and "worst case scenarios" before he proposed.  If any would understand how the wheels of Hollywood turn, it would be him.  Of course, it could all blow up in his face.  Best laid plans of mice and men...........................We'll just have to watch and wait.

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Post by Lakin460 Fri 22 Aug 2014, 18:25

J
The next mrs clooney wrote:
fava wrote:Have we not moved on from the days when a male spouse/spouse to be is somehow responsible for the woman and her actions/words?  If they want to call out Amal, call out Amal.  She has her own opinions and they may or may not differ from his. They are using George's name to get attention.  I don't see an "open letter" to people who might really have a chance to make an impact on the situation.

Are celebrities really required to take a public stand on every issue?  I think they get into the most trouble when they take a stand on issues that they know nothing about.  If  the judgements of celebs like George (no offense meant to you or your opinions George!) really matter to foreign policy, international conflicts, etc., the world really is a mess....
Couldn't agree with you more Fava.  This should be an open letter to Amal since she is the one that made the comment.  However an open letter to Amal doesn't get the type of coverage the person so obviously wants so throw in George's name to get more coverage.  Hopefully George will not sink so low as to even comment on this crap.
While I don't agree that attempting to hold George hostage with threats of boycotting his projects is admirable, I don't think the issue his raises is crap nor intentionally misdirected to get more attention.   I think it's the elephant in the room.   Why address Amal in an open letter?  Her opinion she's already made public, hence the inquisition of George.

No animosity meant at all toward you, tnmc, or fava.  Just enjoying the friendly debate & appreciate the difference in perspective.  Gee, I think I've missed you all more than I realized!
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Post by Nicky80 Fri 22 Aug 2014, 19:23

Well I hope George doesn't comment on that and I guess he will not as this letter is from the 13th August and so far it is not a big deal. People, like this writer from that letter, try to force George to make political statement about the Israel/Palestine conflict so they can use his name even more....

And if George would make a statement and it is not pro Israel then of course "freedom of free speech" doesn't count in this matter and you will be called out anti Jews and will be criticized like Salma Hayek..... I'm sure George will not play this game... 

And I believe he is smarter then them. 

And knowing how many movie projects are in the pipeline and got confirmed after the engagement proves it is ok to be with Amal.....

I don't think his relationship with Amal will damage his career in Hollywood....And in worst case if it does I'm sure he doesn't care as he is not a person to give in and play "Hollywood slave".....At least he is privately happy....  cheers 

And I think the statement Amal did was released by Stan...and if he thought George career is in risk I'm sure he would have done something.... Stan and George are smarter then us if it comes to Hollywood. So I guess their made their thought about it....

Just my opinion. But I know many will disagree...which is OK.....

As for myself...I respect anyone who says "I'm pro Palestine"...because anyone who says that is under attack being anti Jews and gets a wave of critics. Respect to the people who are not scared to share their free opinion and are not scare about what happened after that......
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Post by Nicky80 Fri 22 Aug 2014, 19:33

phys major wrote:What I would like to know is how many anti~semtics, besides the obvious are trolling this website?? 
Horrifying whats happening in the world and all you can say katie is, poor George people are picking on him again!!!


No one on this website is "antisemitism" but if you like to explain who the "obvious" are feel free to speak up. As I have no clue....

And yes lot of horrible things happen in the world and we still can say how we feel about George as it his is a George Clooney forum.... I'm sure whoever comment on how they feel about George it does not mean that people don't care what else happen in the world.

As I believe this subject is very sensitive. Let's try to respect ourselves and each others opinion without making other people look bad just so the own opinion looks better.....Thanks
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Post by Nicky80 Fri 22 Aug 2014, 19:42

Lakin460 wrote:I've been waiting for this to come out and whether this open letter is the event to force a response or it's a similar call later on, I think George is going to have to address this issue and in no vague manner.
He is a high profile figure, globally recognized for his work in entertainment & aggressive advocacy of human rights.  He's been honored by Spielburg's Shoah Foundation (hope I spelled that correctly) & is intimately & professionally connected to people of the Jewish faith.  IMO it behooves him to clear up any ambiguity.  To opt to remain silent would damage his credibility, especially when he's been so vocal on political issues in the past & in defense of the Daily Mail's inflamatory slander of his fiance's ties to the Druze community.  I will be watching to see how he handles this polarizing issue.

For the record, I support Israel's right to defend themselves against terrorists.


I think the Jews friends and business partner he has, know his take on that. I'm sure they know George for years and know his political views....If they respect him the same way they did before I don't think his silent would damage his credibility .....his silent would only show how smart he is as he doesn't get involved in a media circus....

If there are Jews friends or Jews business partner in Hollywood who have doubts...I'm sure they know George long enough to call him up or Stan to clarify things behind curtains...No need to do that through the media....

But I understand why many people think it would be better for him to speak public in that matter, it would make things more clear....I guess we have to wait and see what George will do


Last edited by Nicky80 on Fri 22 Aug 2014, 19:57; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : can't spell)
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Post by Nicky80 Fri 22 Aug 2014, 19:47

Lakin460 wrote:  Gee, I think I've missed you all more than I realized!


 Drink 3   Hug1
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Post by Alisonfan Fri 22 Aug 2014, 19:50

Katiedot wrote:

What I find ironic is that like so many other celebrities and politicians, your fiance has remained quiet about the atrocities taking place at the hands of ISIL.  Although often referred to as ISIS or IS, I am purposely using the name ISIL, the name they use when referring to their wider regional ambitions, ambitions that very much include her native country of Lebanon.  I understand that Ms. Alamuddin is Druze which makes her words now and lack of words earlier even harder for me to comprehend.  Back in December, ISIL imposed Sharia Law on the Druze in the Syrian district of Idlib, forcing 30,000 of her fellow Druze into a life they did not choose, but one they needed to accept or face death.  It baffles me that your fiance remained quiet regarding this direct persecution of people of her very own faith. 


I have to admit I felt the same about her article in Huffington Post, I thought why run to the aid of these perfectly well represented Journalists, relating things about the trial that are already in the public arena. Why do nothing for the people who really need your help.  It baffled me also.  I suppose it's all about profile and her personal judgement.

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Post by fava Fri 22 Aug 2014, 20:27

Alisonfan wrote:
Katiedot wrote:

What I find ironic is that like so many other celebrities and politicians, your fiance has remained quiet about the atrocities taking place at the hands of ISIL.  Although often referred to as ISIS or IS, I am purposely using the name ISIL, the name they use when referring to their wider regional ambitions, ambitions that very much include her native country of Lebanon.  I understand that Ms. Alamuddin is Druze which makes her words now and lack of words earlier even harder for me to comprehend.  Back in December, ISIL imposed Sharia Law on the Druze in the Syrian district of Idlib, forcing 30,000 of her fellow Druze into a life they did not choose, but one they needed to accept or face death.  It baffles me that your fiance remained quiet regarding this direct persecution of people of her very own faith. 


I have to admit I felt the same about her article in Huffington Post, I thought why run to the aid of these perfectly well represented Journalists, relating things about the trial that are already in the public arena. Why do nothing for the people who really need your help.  It baffled me also.  I suppose it's all about profile and her personal judgement.
Um, maybe because she is not an observer in the matter of the journalists.  She is the lawyer for one of them--she is his advocate and I assume she wrote the article as part of that role. 
 
I don't understand what people expect her to do--issue a detailed statement about her personal position?  Why not have her shoot herself in the foot at the same time?  I am sure that is what Amal's future prospective employers would want-- a lawyer whose personal opinions are plastered all over the place.  (And I am waiting for someobne to provide me with factual information as to what her opinion is. I have only seen assumptions based on her ethnic background/family.  I would say nationality, but I am not even sure if she is a Lebanese citizen.)

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Post by lionheart Fri 22 Aug 2014, 21:16

The guy talks about boycotting when he probably never even seen any of George's movies. lol He only has an opinion because of Amal. zzzzz blah blah

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Post by it's me Fri 22 Aug 2014, 21:54

i guess better not answer and let him alone
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Post by The next mrs clooney Fri 22 Aug 2014, 22:02

Lakin460 wrote:J
The next mrs clooney wrote:
fava wrote:Have we not moved on from the days when a male spouse/spouse to be is somehow responsible for the woman and her actions/words?  If they want to call out Amal, call out Amal.  She has her own opinions and they may or may not differ from his. They are using George's name to get attention.  I don't see an "open letter" to people who might really have a chance to make an impact on the situation.

Are celebrities really required to take a public stand on every issue?  I think they get into the most trouble when they take a stand on issues that they know nothing about.  If  the judgements of celebs like George (no offense meant to you or your opinions George!) really matter to foreign policy, international conflicts, etc., the world really is a mess....
Couldn't agree with you more Fava.  This should be an open letter to Amal since she is the one that made the comment.  However an open letter to Amal doesn't get the type of coverage the person so obviously wants so throw in George's name to get more coverage.  Hopefully George will not sink so low as to even comment on this crap.
While I don't agree that attempting to hold George hostage with threats of boycotting his projects is admirable, I don't think the issue his raises is crap nor intentionally misdirected to get more attention.   I think it's the elephant in the room.   Why address Amal in an open letter?  Her opinion she's already made public, hence the inquisition of George.

No animosity meant at all toward you, tnmc, or fava.  Just enjoying the friendly debate & appreciate the difference in perspective.  Gee, I think I've missed you all more than I realized!
But George didn't make the statement so it has nothing to do with him.  He doesn't control her or her thoughts just because he is marrying her.  If he made the statement then yes he should respond but it is not his issue.
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Post by annemarie Fri 22 Aug 2014, 22:03

Why should George give his opinion on what Amal said. This is ridiculous she has a right to say what she wants. George and his movies have nothing to do with this. Her opinions are hers and George's are his own. This man should have written the letter to Amal.

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Post by Silje Fri 22 Aug 2014, 22:04

I knew this would happen the moment she released that statement. Calling it occupied Gaza Strip and talking about crimes that have been committed. This will be seen as being bias against Israel. If she wanted to been seen as neutral she should have said Gaza Strip and if crimes have been committed. And a potential UN investigator must be seen as being more neutral. And this is a conflict where every word you say will be analyzed. 

I don't know if this will affect George's career. But maybee it could affect his relationship.
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Post by Lakin460 Fri 22 Aug 2014, 22:28

The next mrs clooney wrote:
Lakin460 wrote:J
The next mrs clooney wrote:
fava wrote:Have we not moved on from the days when a male spouse/spouse to be is somehow responsible for the woman and her actions/words?  If they want to call out Amal, call out Amal.  She has her own opinions and they may or may not differ from his. They are using George's name to get attention.  I don't see an "open letter" to people who might really have a chance to make an impact on the situation.

Are celebrities really required to take a public stand on every issue?  I think they get into the most trouble when they take a stand on issues that they know nothing about.  If  the judgements of celebs like George (no offense meant to you or your opinions George!) really matter to foreign policy, international conflicts, etc., the world really is a mess....
Couldn't agree with you more Fava.  This should be an open letter to Amal since she is the one that made the comment.  However an open letter to Amal doesn't get the type of coverage the person so obviously wants so throw in George's name to get more coverage.  Hopefully George will not sink so low as to even comment on this crap.
While I don't agree that attempting to hold George hostage with threats of boycotting his projects is admirable, I don't think the issue his raises is crap nor intentionally misdirected to get more attention.   I think it's the elephant in the room.   Why address Amal in an open letter?  Her opinion she's already made public, hence the inquisition of George.

No animosity meant at all toward you, tnmc, or fava.  Just enjoying the friendly debate & appreciate the difference in perspective.  Gee, I think I've missed you all more than I realized!
But George didn't make the statement so it has nothing to do with him.  He doesn't control her or her thoughts just because he is marrying her.  If he made the statement then yes he should respond but it is not his issue.
Okay, so in the name of friendly debate, what you are saying is that anything Amal says or does is separate & distinct from George?  Her views, political, personal & ethical, have no influence, no bearing upon their relationship or their (very) public brand?  I'm sorry, unless this marriage is a sham, the legal, physical & spiritual union of two people is meant to reflect a harmony of soul.  I think that the old proverb is true, that two cannot walk together unless they be agreed.
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Post by LornaDoone Fri 22 Aug 2014, 23:39

There is a famous couple that married one Republican and one Democrat.  Opposites in view can marry and probably have a harmonious marriage.  But I think the difference with George here is that his work involves the participation of many people of influence in Hollywood who are of the Jewish faith.

They will most likely side in this particular case with Israel.

That his wife to be has come out with a statement that seems to indicate a bias against Jewish people could be an issue for some of the people George may need to work with in the future.

Yes, she's entitled to her opinion but if that opinion becomes in some way offensive to those who may assist in buttering his bread then her opinions may affect their view of George.

Look at Mel Gibson.  He's basically shunned in Hollywood - not many will work with him due to his anti-Semetic comments.  Yes, George isn't making the comments but his wife to be - who will also benefit from the monies that he makes from the film business - has made comment that indicates bias.

Put it this way - take whatever religion you are and put it on the Jewish side of this scenario.

Now take any opposing religion and find that they are bombing you and see how you would feel.  Yes, I realize that's what's happening on both sides of this issue. The point here though is that the Jewish side of the equation pretty much controls Hollywood.  And if you have a situation where a guy's wife is going around saying the your religion or your group of people have committed crimes and only your side is at fault would you want to work with her husband because ultimately what you do enriches her too?

That's the issue here.
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Post by LizzyNY Sat 23 Aug 2014, 00:03

Having never heard of Hollandsheroes.com or David Groen, I went to the site to read the article. I must say I found the comments from other readers much more interesting than the article itself. Mr. Groen's opinions are knee-jerk and predictable. The comments are not.
 
I have always been uneasy about Amal's politics. I think on a personal level she's probably very much the way the press has portrayed her - intelligent, fun, stylish, confident - and George has fallen for her on that basis.

 But she is also a public figure in her own right, in her own arena. I'm not sure what she believes. I don't know if what she says reflects bias or an attempt to maintain an image that will further her career. I do know that if a couple doesn't share the same core beliefs they are in for trouble.

Many posters here have said that George would never fall for someone who didn't share his integrity and belief in fairness. My concern is that, depending on which head he was thinking with, he may not have thought this through. There may be repercussions, but not necessarily to his career.
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Post by Katiedot Sat 23 Aug 2014, 00:26

Lakin460 wrote:  I'm sorry, unless this marriage is a sham, the legal, physical & spiritual union of two people is meant to reflect a harmony of soul.  I think that the old proverb is true, that two cannot walk together unless they be agreed.
Respectfully request to agree to disagree.  I don't know any couples who are absolutely in agreement in every single thing.  That's not love, that's . . . weird.  Have you never met married couple from different racial or religious backgrounds?  George and Amal are from different countries so clearly aren't going to match in every single way.  Would you say that they're therefore incompatible?  I've found that in a real relationship a couple have shared values, ethics and approach to life, but those are general aspects in life and don't mean that political, cultural, ethnic or religious beliefs etc etc will be identical.  IMO a marriage really has to be sham or on the rocks if the couple can't keep it together because one favours Israel and the other Palestine.  

-----------------------------------------------

The things that make me angry about this guy is that he's piggy backing on George's name to get attention.  As others have said, the letter should be addressed to Amal.  But of course that wouldn't get him the spotlight he's clearly so desperate for.

He's either stupid or a liar: in one sentence he makes the (factually incorrect) assertion that Gaza isn't occupied and then goes on to contradict himself stating that gosh yes, Israel is in Gaza but doesn't want to be.  He can't have it both ways: either Israel is occupying Gaza or it's not. Whether it wants to be there is another, irrelevant, matter.  You're either occupying a country or you're not and you can't claim you're not if you are, no matter how unwillingly.   Even the United Nations calls it 'occupied Gaza': [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] as do international news organisations. The author may wish to pretend he lives in a different reality; that's his prerogative but expecting everyone else to act as though his fairy tales are reality is nonsense.

That he holds George responsible for the possible beliefs of his fiancee is staggering and, to me, shameful.  To then think it's ok to threaten George's career because of his fiancee's possible beliefs is beyond disgraceful.  This is a nasty bully throwing his weight around.


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Post by LornaDoone Sat 23 Aug 2014, 00:36

But katie, I think too many might share his opinion. They might not voice it as he has done but they might live it by not wanting to work with him.

It might not be overt - but just - "Oh sorry old chap, can't work on that project as I'm already tied up with something else."  

That's my fear but perhaps it might be groundless and those who might have issue with Amal could put her opinions aside.
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Post by Katiedot Sat 23 Aug 2014, 00:41

I don't think it's so much the working with George that'll be an issue - there are enough people in Hollywood who know George personally and what his opinion is.  He's got a good reputation.  He was honoured by the Eli Wiesel foundation just a few months back and that speaks for itself.

The issue as I see it is the threatened boycott of his films, ie encouraging the audience to not go and see his films.

I don't now whether George should make a statement and give this little toad more free publicity or leave it. I suspect there'll be a lot of back stage discussions and friends of George may quietly put a word in the ear of those who matter and ask for this to be put to bed.


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Post by Sevens Sat 23 Aug 2014, 00:43

Well I think the Jewish people in Hollywood are the US citizens. Why would they be offended by comments on a foreign country's war policy? That's happening in Gaza and who knows what happened in details. Why would the Jewish people be so sensitive and want to brand everyone with the "anti_Israel" bias? So no crimes on Israel side forever? Ridiculous.
Do the leaders of the Israel army really care what others are thinking of them and need to force everyone to take a stand on this? Live you own life in the moment cause you are not politicians who have the real power, please.


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Post by Katiedot Sat 23 Aug 2014, 00:51

Sevens wrote:Well I think the Jewish people in Hollywood are the US citizens. Why would they be offensive by comments on a foreign country's war policy? That's happening in Gaza and who knows what happened in details. Why would the Jewish people be so sensitive and want to brand everyone with the "anti_Israel" bias? So no crimes on Israel side forever? Ridiculous.
 In the case of Israel it doesn't work that way, particularly not for American jews.  Israel exists because the jews needed a country where they could be free from persecution, so even if a jewish person has never been to Israel, there's a connection there. As far as I understand it, any jew can move to Israel and get citizenship (I'm not sure exactly how long it takes or how easy it is, but that's the theory).

In this particular case, the author describes himself as Zionist which is described as "is a nationalist movement of Jews and Jewish culture that supports the creation of a Jewish homeland in the territory defined as the Land of Israel" (thanks, Wikipedia) so the man has a great deal of interest in Israel and its safety.


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Post by fava Sat 23 Aug 2014, 00:51

Lakin460 wrote:
The next mrs clooney wrote:
Lakin460 wrote:J
The next mrs clooney wrote:
fava wrote:Have we not moved on from the days when a male spouse/spouse to be is somehow responsible for the woman and her actions/words?  If they want to call out Amal, call out Amal.  She has her own opinions and they may or may not differ from his. They are using George's name to get attention.  I don't see an "open letter" to people who might really have a chance to make an impact on the situation.

Are celebrities really required to take a public stand on every issue?  I think they get into the most trouble when they take a stand on issues that they know nothing about.  If  the judgements of celebs like George (no offense meant to you or your opinions George!) really matter to foreign policy, international conflicts, etc., the world really is a mess....
Couldn't agree with you more Fava.  This should be an open letter to Amal since she is the one that made the comment.  However an open letter to Amal doesn't get the type of coverage the person so obviously wants so throw in George's name to get more coverage.  Hopefully George will not sink so low as to even comment on this crap.
While I don't agree that attempting to hold George hostage with threats of boycotting his projects is admirable, I don't think the issue his raises is crap nor intentionally misdirected to get more attention.   I think it's the elephant in the room.   Why address Amal in an open letter?  Her opinion she's already made public, hence the inquisition of George.

No animosity meant at all toward you, tnmc, or fava.  Just enjoying the friendly debate & appreciate the difference in perspective.  Gee, I think I've missed you all more than I realized!
But George didn't make the statement so it has nothing to do with him.  He doesn't control her or her thoughts just because he is marrying her.  If he made the statement then yes he should respond but it is not his issue.
Okay, so in the name of friendly debate, what you are saying is that anything Amal says or does is separate & distinct from George?  Her views, political, personal & ethical, have no influence, no bearing upon their relationship or their (very) public brand?  I'm sorry, unless this marriage is a sham, the legal, physical & spiritual union of two people is meant to reflect a harmony of soul.  I think that the old proverb is true, that two cannot walk together unless they be agreed.

You must think James Carville and Mary Matalin have a sham relationship then.  How about couples with very different religions?  Harmony does not mean the same note over and over again.  Different notes can harmonize too. 

I do think that what Amal says or does is separate & distinct from George. Yes, it could influence their relationship at times and their "brand" (although I am not sure she thinks of it terms of "brand"yet  and I hope she never does.  I prefer people fresh and not pre-packaged).  How did dating strippers and porn stars reflect on the brand?  George has not always taken good care of it if there is someone/something he wants.

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Post by fava Sat 23 Aug 2014, 01:04

LornaDoone wrote:There is a famous couple that married one Republican and one Democrat.  Opposites in view can marry and probably have a harmonious marriage.  But I think the difference with George here is that his work involves the participation of many people of influence in Hollywood who are of the Jewish faith.

They will most likely side in this particular case with Israel.

That his wife to be has come out with a statement that seems to indicate a bias against Jewish people could be an issue for some of the people George may need to work with in the future.

Yes, she's entitled to her opinion but if that opinion becomes in some way offensive to those who may assist in buttering his bread then her opinions may affect their view of George.

Look at Mel Gibson.  He's basically shunned in Hollywood - not many will work with him due to his anti-Semetic comments.  Yes, George isn't making the comments but his wife to be - who will also benefit from the monies that he makes from the film business - has made comment that indicates bias.

Put it this way - take whatever religion you are and put it on the Jewish side of this scenario.

Now take any opposing religion and find that they are bombing you and see how you would feel.  Yes, I realize that's what's happening on both sides of this issue. The point here though is that the Jewish side of the equation pretty much controls Hollywood.  And if you have a situation where a guy's wife is going around saying the your religion or your group of people have committed crimes and only your side is at fault would you want to work with her husband because ultimately what you do enriches her too?

That's the issue here.

IMO there is a HUGE difference gap between "comments that might indicate bias" from your fiance and Mel Gibson's own words in anti-semitic and racist rants (and wasn't there abuse of the wife as well)?

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Post by premiere Sat 23 Aug 2014, 01:49

When you are madly in love with someone, you aren't even going to give a thought about how they feel about politics. You just think you're meant to be together, and as long as you can be with that person, that's all that matters.  Where I see trouble is if Amal gets very vocal and opinionated about the problems in the Gaza Strip, especially around his Jewish friends. She should realize how pro-Israel our country is, especially the entertainment field, and keep her opinions to herself. The last thing she should do is force George to defend her because of offensive comments.
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Post by LizzyNY Sat 23 Aug 2014, 02:10

Premiere - I agree completely, and you put my feelings into words better than I could. I don't think his friends (many of whom are Jewish) would question his feelings, but others in the industry might - especially if he has to defend her publicly. They might feel there is guilt by association, and therefore he must share her leanings. I really hope this is more appearance than substance on her part.

I said before I am not familiar with the source of this article. Is it widely known? I'm hoping that it is really rather some obscure site which will get little or no media attention.
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Post by annemarie Sat 23 Aug 2014, 02:16

I don't think they would be getting married if Politics or religion were an issue. I would think that like a lot of relationships they agree to disagree. I would also hope that the people George works with and socializes with would realize that Amals feelings and opinions are hers and have nothing to do with George. Everyone has a right to  their opinions whether liked or not.

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Post by Sevens Sat 23 Aug 2014, 02:27

“I am horrified by the situation in the occupied Gaza Strip, particularly the civilian casualties and strongly believe that there should be an independent investigation and accountability for crimes that have been committed.”
Actually I don't see anything wrong in this statement.Is there any cultural difference here?We do have the civilian casualties and the crimes must have been committed. You can't call each man or woman or kid who got killed by bombs terrorist. As long as there's at least one of them wasn't a terrorist it was still a crime.
In other words, if somebody didn't die naturally or by accident or on purpose, there must be a crime behind the death.
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Post by fava Sat 23 Aug 2014, 02:39

I believe the UN High Commissioner of Human Rights accused both sides--Hamas and Israel--of committing crimes at the end of July (see news reports from July 31) I don't think that her statement should be read as accusing Israel only .

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Post by Sevens Sat 23 Aug 2014, 02:46

Yeah I think that's what Amal wanted to express in the statement. She didn't specify which side has committed the crimes. That needs to be investigated. But "crimes that have been committed" is a fact.
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Post by Katiedot Sat 23 Aug 2014, 09:30

Well, she did talk about "civilian casualties" and "crimes commited". Seeing as the death toll currently stands at around 2,000 Palestinian civilians and three Israeli civilians, you can kind of see where she's coming from.

Yes, there are dead soldiers, but killing a soldier during a war isn't a crime. It's war. Killing civilians never is legal.
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Post by Sevens Sat 23 Aug 2014, 10:19

But I think she was just responding to the appointment. The UN meant to task them to investigate crimes there including civilian casualties.
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Post by Alisonfan Sat 23 Aug 2014, 10:24

What a difference a ring makes:

Pre ring
Dating quiet girl with full time career, dislikes publicity having picture taken, or voicing/commenting in public. Does not want to be the star of the show. And keeps well out of the Clooney arena. Happy just being with George in the down low.
At last the woman he was looking for. At last no controversies !

Post ring

Planned photo shoots, " leaked" stories ALL regarding "how, clever, talented, beautiful , rich, exceptional family, great activist(?) humanitarian (?) totally the best woman on this earth, oops and modest and FAIR minded, the person you would go to for advice and intelligent judgement "
Inability to keep quiet, inability to make a decision , ability to say and WRITE the wrong thing at the WRONG time. Suddenly not at all the same woman from the pre ring days.

SO WHAT HAPPENED? Did she get Clooneyed, or is this the REAL Amal.

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Post by Nicky80 Sat 23 Aug 2014, 10:34

fava wrote:I believe the UN High Commissioner of Human Rights accused both sides--Hamas and Israel--of committing crimes at the end of July (see news reports from July 31) I don't think that her statement should be read as accusing Israel only .


Agree with you fava....but the thing is PEOPLE like to read it the way they want. That happens in our daily life too. How often did we sent an email to someone and somebody got back to us in a bitchy way and we have to explain "that's not what I meant"....People read how they WANT to perceive it....

If PEOPLE are already biased to that conflict and if PEOPLE are already biased to the person AMAL which we know there some of course they read it negative against her and Israel...It is up to the PEOPLE how they like to read that comment.....

And by the way......Even Obama spoke very harsh to Israel few weeks ago while Israel bombed the UN school.... I haven's seen many Americans or Jewish people claiming he should step down as a President because he is against Israel or explain himslef....His statement was accepted by the people too. So can be Amals's. The only differences, President Obama directed his critics to Israel while Amal didn't do that but people read it that way.....


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Post by Nicky80 Sat 23 Aug 2014, 10:37

Sevens wrote:Yeah I think that's what Amal wanted to express in the statement. She didn't specify which side has committed the crimes. That needs to be investigated. But "crimes that have been committed" is a fact.

Yes exactly....
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Post by Alisonfan Sat 23 Aug 2014, 10:44

The initial chemical attraction between GC and Amal, sure has not developed well.  Sometimes "the chemistry" is a warning, like run!

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Post by Katiedot Sat 23 Aug 2014, 11:12

Alisonfan wrote:What a difference a ring makes:

Pre ring
Dating quiet girl with full time career, dislikes publicity having picture taken, or voicing/commenting in public. Does not want to be the star of the show. And keeps well out of the Clooney arena. Happy just being with George in the down low.
At last the woman he was looking for. At last no controversies !

Post ring

Planned photo shoots, " leaked" stories ALL regarding "how, clever, talented, beautiful , rich,  exceptional family, great activist(?) humanitarian (?) totally the best woman on this earth, oops and modest and FAIR minded, the person you would go to for advice and intelligent judgement "
Inability to keep quiet, inability to make a decision , ability to say and WRITE the wrong thing at the WRONG time. Suddenly not at all the same woman from the pre ring days.

SO WHAT HAPPENED?  Did she get Clooneyed, or is this the REAL Amal.
I really wonder what universe you live in sometimes. The stories about how great she is weren't written by Amal but by journalists (I use the term loosely - entertainment writers are barely journalists IMO) who are interested in the woman George Clooney - the eternal bachelor - has decided to date. That's exactly the same as with every woman he dates in public. These stories started as soon as it came out that they were dating and picked up once they got engaged. That's called journalism. You may not be interested in who George Clooney is sleeping with [cough, bullshit, cough], but much of the world is.

Before she ever met George she was a published author (one book, many articles) about controversial subjects and was a recognised high-flying lawyer, noted in legal circles. Nothing's changed except she's got wider expsure. That comes as a consequence of dating George, whether she wants it or not, and there's nothing she can do to stop it.

I don't know what you mean by 'planned photoshoots'. George Clooney IMO has always done planned paparazzi photoshoots with his past girlfriends so it's pretty clear that any new photoshoots have also come from him. Why would you blame her for that?
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Post by LizzyNY Sat 23 Aug 2014, 13:00

Sevens wrote:Well I think the Jewish people in Hollywood are the US citizens. Why would they be offended by comments on a foreign country's war policy? That's happening in Gaza and who knows what happened in details. Why would the Jewish people be so sensitive and want to brand everyone with the "anti_Israel" bias? So no crimes on Israel side forever? Ridiculous.
Do the leaders of the Israel army really care what others are thinking of them and need to force everyone to take a stand on this? Live you own life in the moment cause you are not politicians who have the real power, please.  

Sevens - Perhaps this is one of the major differences between your country and mine. Here we choose our government to represent us. It is our civic responsibility. If they don't, we can vote them out of office and elect someone who will. Where Israel is concerned, we expect them to act in a way that helps ensure Israel's  survival - not because we are all Zionists, but because Israel is the only true democracy and our only real ally in the Middle East.

The leaders of the Israeli army don't care what we think. They are fighting for the survival of their people. They want, and need, the support of the West but whether they get it or not they are going to defend their country. Please keep in mind what started this latest war, and the fact that Hamas has been bombing Israel since the beginning. Hamas is the one who has broken every truce. And their fellow terrorists have promised to bring their jihad to the rest of the world. Right now they are focused on destroying Israel. Anyone who thinks they will stop there is a fool. 

Few people believe Israel is completely blameless in their actions. But to ignore the actions of everyone else in the situation is, at the very least, unfair - if not biased. Hamas and its ilk have done their share to terrorize the region. Just yesterday Hamas publicly executed 18 people they accused of being Israeli spies. Are we going to blame Israel for that , too?

We are concerned with what happens in the Middle East for the same reasons we are concerned with what happens in Sudan, Darfur, Syria, Ukraine, and all the other trouble spots in the world. We do not live in a bubble. We are citizens of the world and are, or will be, affected by what happens everywhere - even if we wish we weren't.
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